[SmilinIrish]

So the cost of a magical lodge does not scale with rating.  It's a flat 500 per rating.  The availability is R x 2.  Magical lodge primarily affects ritual spellcasting, but has a couple of other interesting uses.  It acts as a mana barrier on both the astral and physical planes.  Also, in regard to astral tracking, it adds its force to the threshold if the mage being tracked is within the barrier.  So if you cast a spell, didn't get to clean your signature, you might sit behind a barrier until the effect fades if you are trying to avoid being tracked.  The rating of the barrier adds to the threshhold giving you a chance that the trail will fade out before the tracker gets to you.   

So increasing your lodge rating after character gen seems difficult.  You've got to throw a lot of money to get each successive level of lodge rating.  But with the restricted gear quality, you can start off with an R12 lodge for 6k.  This gives you a mana barrier with 24 dice vs spirits trying to cross the barrier or mages pushing through/using mana window.  It adds 12 to the threshhold of tracking attempts (arguably causing the tracking mage to take an extra 3 hours to find you, making it likely that the trail fades first.)

So restricted gear costs 10 karma.  For my current build this is two levels of focused concentration and not worthwhile.  It probably isn't worthwhile for most.  But I just thought the idea was interesting.  Thoughts?

Any thoughts or tricks on the process of upgrading lodges in game?

[falar]

I honestly don't think there's anything that's worth changing about it. Sure, the Availability gets high, but it's such a cheap item that you can just spread cash around until you get the materials you need.

For instance, let's say I start CharGen with a Force 6 Magical Lodge and want to upgrade it to a Force 12. The materials are a mere 3000 nuyen, but the availability is 24. My best contact for this is a Talismonger, who we'll say has 16 dice for finding things, so there's a deficit of 8 dice. If I spend 200% of the cost, then I've got those dice. So, for 9000 nuyen, 2-4 days of waiting and 12 days of attuning, I've got a Force 12 Magical Lodge.

Now, granted, getting anything above a Force 14 is going to be a pain in the butt and probably require you to sick two contacts on it ... but it's worth it, yeah?

[Sendaz]

Don't forget mages often pool resources on things like this, so a magical group will often have a fair rating lodge to call their own.

Major corps and universities are listed at having lodges of 10+1d6 rating to give you an idea of how you might compare.

Which does raise an interesting question of whether you can nick some of those components next time you are raiding the corp hangout.

Most traditions probably can not make use of all of the items, but one should be able to salvage a bit of it plus it wrecks the corps little circle so 2for1

[SmilinIrish]

Can you break down the numbers on dice pool of the talismonger?  I have mine at Conn 5 Loyalty 2.  That was something I was having trouble figuring out, as the book talks about it being a skill roll based off of charisma.  It isn't like I have the talismonger stat-ed out.  And by these rules all talismongers would be shaman (for the charisma).  So I suppose 6 for Charisma, 6 for negotiation, 2 for a specialty...not sure how to work that out.


Also wasn't suggesting changes, just looking for hive mind discussion (just like you provided).  Thanks!

[falar]

Can you break down the numbers on dice pool of the talismonger?

I generally assume a Charisma of 4-8, a Negotiation pool of 6-10, a specialty in Bargaining (I think), which gives you a dice pool of 12-20. I forgot that I give a general +2 for things that match the type of contact it is, which pushes it to 14-22, so 16 is pretty decent.

That said, since most people don't stat out their contacts, I usually go with 3xConnection for their base dice pool, because I don't like to include Loyalty in the roll as it doesn't make sense to me that a Loyalty 6/Connection 1 Shmoe has an equal odds of finding something as a Connection 3/Loyalty 2 Gang Leader.

[All4BigGuns]

Why not?

Let's say that someone has that Connection 1, Loyalty 6 guy and another has a Connection 6, Loyalty 1 equivalent. Sure, the latter has a larger network, but the former is much more willing to take big risks to find his pal what he wants.

[bdyer]

It's not a restricted item.

Our gm allows browse checks to find non restricted items ( aka googling through speciality sites)

[CitizenJoe]

I'm not going to pull out the books but read up on how to build the lodge.  Getting the materials is one thing but you still need to assemble and charge it up.

[Strill]

I'm not going to pull out the books but read up on how to build the lodge.  Getting the materials is one thing but you still need to assemble and charge it up.

That doesn't require anything but a few days to do it.  There's no cost but time.

[CitizenJoe]

You need a place to put it. That's a grand a month added on to lifestyle.  My point is that having the materials isn't the same as having a lodge.  Also, there's licensing for magic paraphernalia which means the whole thing could get confiscated if found.

[Strill]

You need a place to put it. That's a grand a month added on to lifestyle.  My point is that having the materials isn't the same as having a lodge.  Also, there's licensing for magic paraphernalia which means the whole thing could get confiscated if found.

If it required a license it would be restricted. It's not.

Furthermore, there's nothing forcing you to have a special area for your lodge. The Special Work Area only gives you a +2 limit bonus. There's nothing saying it's required in order to have a lodge.

I honestly don't think there's anything that's worth changing about it. Sure, the Availability gets high, but it's such a cheap item that you can just spread cash around until you get the materials you need.

For instance, let's say I start CharGen with a Force 6 Magical Lodge and want to upgrade it to a Force 12. The materials are a mere 3000 nuyen, but the availability is 24. My best contact for this is a Talismonger, who we'll say has 16 dice for finding things, so there's a deficit of 8 dice. If I spend 200% of the cost, then I've got those dice. So, for 9000 nuyen, 2-4 days of waiting and 12 days of attuning, I've got a Force 12 Magical Lodge.

Now, granted, getting anything above a Force 14 is going to be a pain in the butt and probably require you to sick two contacts on it ... but it's worth it, yeah?

Where does it say that one lodge material is different from any other? The book says if you want to upgrade a lodge, you just add more materials. It doesn't specify any other conditions.  Why can't you buy 5 materials at availability 10, then 5 more at availability 10, and build a force 10 lodge?

[SmilinIrish]

Because there has to be something to limit the force of the lodge.  Otherwise everyone would have ridiculously high lodge ratings.

[Reaver]

The only real limit is the time to set up the lodge, which is Force X days(?)....(away from books but that is what I remember)

So really, upgrading a lodge from R6 to R7 is only ¥500, but takes 7 days...

Eventually you end up with the time needed being the biggest setback as you may just not have the time needed free! - such as your team is constantly on runs....
Which leaves you with a choice, go on the run and get paid, or not and add to your lodge.

But keep in mind, the lodge does have a limited amount of use.... which is not for all mages and builds...

[Marcus]

Where does it say that one lodge material is different from any other? The book says if you want to upgrade a lodge, you just add more materials. It doesn't specify any other conditions.  Why can't you buy 5 materials at availability 10, then 5 more at availability 10, and build a force 10 lodge?

I'll go with Consider rating complexity to be exponential not linear. (the real answer being b/c the rules said so)

[CitizenJoe]

Magical paraphernalia and spell casting above rating 3 is licensed in default Seattle setting.  A rating 12 would be the magical equivalent of drug lab or bomb factory.  While you MIGHT have a fake permit for it, nobody will believe it because they are rare as hen's teeth and regulated.  There are damn few permits for that rating and very easy to verify.  They aren't very hideable since they will stand out like a sore thumb in the astral.  So, you need the materials, space to set it up, time to charge it and nobody can notice it during that time or you could be raided and have the whole thing confiscated.