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Harbinger of Doom...Rigger 5.0 is here

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ScytheKnight

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« Reply #15 on: <12-17-15/2353:24> »
Will be nabbing a PDF once money comes in.
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #16 on: <12-18-15/0003:03> »
Oh, and there *is* an errata thread.

http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=22807.0

Blessedly small for now, but I figure more will creep on as teh weekend moves on. (And people get back from Star Wars and put down Fallout 4.)

MijRai

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« Reply #17 on: <12-18-15/0051:22> »
I only pick up Shadowrun books as PDFs for now, sorry.  I love the setting; not so much the quality control going on so far.  Too much hit-or-miss, I'd prefer to wait until errata is actually updated and put into the print. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Fabe

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« Reply #18 on: <12-18-15/0153:49> »
Artwork is awesome, the stories at the start of each chapter are fun reading.

Fluff overall reads well.

Mod Slots for vehicles and Mod Points for Drones lets you customize a fair bit.

A fair pile of vehicles displayed here.  54 Drones and one rigged missile for example.

Small quibble over the vagueness of actual cargo capacity, but between looking at seats, vehicle description and the Mod points available for things like extra seats or secret compartments a GM can get a rough idea of space should your runners get hold of something bulky and insists on stuffing it in the ride.

  So based on these vague cargo rules in your opinion about how many medium drones should be able to fit in a bulldog with all six seats taken?

Sendaz

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« Reply #19 on: <12-18-15/0502:53> »

  So based on these vague cargo rules in your opinion about how many medium drones should be able to fit in a bulldog with all six seats taken?
Well since the Modification slots are based on Body for each of the various modification categories (ie if you have a body 12 vehicle you go 12 pts possible in each of six categories- with body work being one of them) I think I am going to go with Cargo Storage = unused Mod slots in the Body Modification Category.  Now this houserule will have to have the caveat that some of the items of the Body Mods do not count toward space lose.  The Chameleon coating is external and while it does cost Mod Slots, I would say that would not count toward cargo space loss, but these are few as most of the Body modification category are things that do take up internal space. Plus there some slots in the other Mod categories that should count toward internal cargo space.

Again this is just for regular vehicles as the bigger RV style vehicles,  boats and other devices are  going to have different spaces inside so a yacht will probably have loads more space for it's body than a van will.

The tricky bit is trying to figure out how much space the drones take up as using Body for them doesn't work that well, even the micro/mini drones still have  Body 1 afterall.
Edit : some of my original math was off--recalculating
A general rule of thumb may figure cargo slots are roughly 0.125 cubic meter (aka a cube 0.5m x 0.5m x 0.5m ) so it may look like this:
Microdrones= 64+ per 1 slot Cargo Space (this is where it gets real fuzzy numbers as some minidrones get damn small, basically handwave it unless doing stupid amounts)
Minidrones= 8 per 1 slot Cargo Space
Small Drones =1 slot Cargo space
Medium & Human sized Anthromorphic Drones = 2-3 slots Cargo space  (Trolls come in around 4-6 slots if you are stacking trolls in back :P )
Large Drones = 6-8 slots Cargo space

So the Bulldog has base body of 16. So I have 16 slots for Body modifications on the vehicle and 16 slots for Weapons Mods and spent 3 slots for secret compartment just because it's where we can keep the snacks without the damn troll decker digging into them all the time. I also go with Chameleon coating because it could be handy changing the van's colours. I also put in a standard sized weapon mount that pops out when we need it (aka internal visibility) which takes up 4 slots (2 for mount, +2 for being internal visible- so when not in use you don't see it on the outside) from my Weapon Mod column.
That leaves me with 11 slots for further modifications in the Body section, 12 slots for weapon playing  and 9 slots of effective space left. (16 slots for Body mods, minus 3 for the secret compartment, am not counting Chameleon toward cargo space but that internal hiding weapon mount from Weapon Mods does so minus 4).

Now lets say you have one Ares Duelist  and two GM-Nissan Doberman.
That's roughly 9 Body worth of drone (assuming the upper use of 3 slots for medium, slimmer models might only be a 2 ) so you should be able to fit everything in the remaining cargo section but then you won't have much room for anything else unless its sitting on someone's lap when they are in their seats. 
Some drones may also fold down some in their downtime and take up less space so if the Doberman in inactive mode folds down a bit (making it a 2) you could stack another on top (3 for the Duelist, 2 each for sleeping Dobbies so could cram 3 of them in for a total space taken up of 9)

Now suppose you went with additional seats increasing seats from 6 to 9 (50% increase) for 2 Mod slots from Body modifications.  This would drop your free Cargo space down to 7 slots, but I would also say that is just when the seats are empty, because you can stack stuff on the added seats.  If someone is occupying the added seats that would pretty much eat up a lot of the cargo space at 2 cargo slots per person (figure even if the person were 3 slot sized part of this is already factored into the seats), leaving just 1 cargo slot for goods,/drones.  So you could seat the Duelist in one seat and 2 of the Dobbies in pack mode on the other two seats but not much else beyond that 1 spare cargo slot behind the seats.

Remember the regular seats already there do NOT count toward reducing further cargo slots nor do people sitting in those. 
So if you are only carrying 5 people you could use that 6th original seat as extra cargo space using the math above.

If we had left the weapon mount as external only that would have saved us 4 slots of cargo space as external only really shouldn't count toward internal space, and then you could have loaded up some more drones or maybe some cargo like that Executive you just extracted and hog tied before throwing her in the back of the van. 

Also note we have not stuffed anything in the secret compartment, but will leave that to the GM to decide what you can fit in there.




Again it's very rough and will need tweaking but could serve as a starting point.
« Last Edit: <12-18-15/0939:52> by Sendaz »
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Basic

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« Reply #20 on: <12-18-15/1036:58> »
It's always a tight rope, between updating the previous edition stuff and just creating new things. You get some people upset (Pfft! All they did is update Book 4 to Book 5. I could do that on my own.) either way you go (Where's Blank! It's something we've alwys had!) ... getting it just right ain't easy. Lord knows *I* haven't found that sweet spot yet, but I'm inherantly nervous, so. :)

Obviously, some drones didn't make it in, while a bunch of new ones did. Is the balance right? I dunno. That's for y'all to say, ultimately. For stuff that didn't make it in, well, since Riggers finally have a book before an edition ends, we can maybe get something like Gun Heaven for future releases of more vehicles and drones.

Time will tell!

Depends on how well this one sells, so ... tell your friends! Pick up a copy for Xmas. Heck, buy another and give it to the wannabe Rigger at your table! Makes a great gift. :D

This is why they should just give some conversion guidelines for updating stuff your self. If they did that they could stick completely to making new stuff.
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Basic

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« Reply #21 on: <12-18-15/1052:24> »
Will the Mitsuhama Otomo comeback ?

The Shiawase I Doll Seems like a cheap knock off
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #22 on: <12-18-15/1138:25> »
Well, the I-Doll is esentially an improved version.

The Otomo... wait, no. I'm thinking of teh *manservant*, which is an alternate of the Cirado. (I want Juan! I need Juan! I gotta gotta have Juan!)

The Otomo was the assassination one. Didn't make the cut *here*, but, as noted, the S-K 'bot is *awfully* kitted out for just a secretary...

Basic

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« Reply #23 on: <12-18-15/1209:53> »
Well, the I-Doll is esentially an improved version.

The Otomo... wait, no. I'm thinking of teh *manservant*, which is an alternate of the Cirado. (I want Juan! I need Juan! I gotta gotta have Juan!)

The Otomo was the assassination one. Didn't make the cut *here*, but, as noted, the S-K 'bot is *awfully* kitted out for just a secretary...

No the Mitsuhama Otomo is a is a complete Cyborg body

"Mitsuhama Otomo (Cyborg Anthroform Walker Drone)"

The Otomo remains the most common model for full-body cyborgs
Each Otomo is custom built with a unique appearance and designed to replicate the look of a specific metatype and sex. They are most commonly used as high-profile bodyguards, personal assistants, and pleasure drones by those with extensive resources. These drones are capable of wearing and using most gear designed for a metahuman of their model type.
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cantrip

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« Reply #24 on: <12-18-15/1313:10> »
Artwork is awesome, the stories at the start of each chapter are fun reading.

The art is great! And I always like Echo Chernik's work.  8)

Depends on how well this one sells, so ... tell your friends! Pick up a copy for Xmas. Heck, buy another and give it to the wannabe Rigger at your table! Makes a great gift. :D
Done and done!  ;D

Fabe

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« Reply #25 on: <12-18-15/1332:30> »

  So based on these vague cargo rules in your opinion about how many medium drones should be able to fit in a bulldog with all six seats taken?
Well since the Modification slots are based on Body for each of the various modification categories (ie if you have a body 12 vehicle you go 12 pts possible in each of six categories- with body work being one of them) I think I am going to go with Cargo Storage = unused Mod slots in the Body Modification Category.  Now this houserule will have to have the caveat that some of the items of the Body Mods do not count toward space lose.  The Chameleon coating is external and while it does cost Mod Slots, I would say that would not count toward cargo space loss, but these are few as most of the Body modification category are things that do take up internal space. Plus there some slots in the other Mod categories that should count toward internal cargo space.

Again this is just for regular vehicles as the bigger RV style vehicles,  boats and other devices are  going to have different spaces inside so a yacht will probably have loads more space for it's body than a van will.

The tricky bit is trying to figure out how much space the drones take up as using Body for them doesn't work that well, even the micro/mini drones still have  Body 1 afterall.
Edit : some of my original math was off--recalculating
A general rule of thumb may figure cargo slots are roughly 0.125 cubic meter (aka a cube 0.5m x 0.5m x 0.5m ) so it may look like this:
Microdrones= 64+ per 1 slot Cargo Space (this is where it gets real fuzzy numbers as some minidrones get damn small, basically handwave it unless doing stupid amounts)
Minidrones= 8 per 1 slot Cargo Space
Small Drones =1 slot Cargo space
Medium & Human sized Anthromorphic Drones = 2-3 slots Cargo space  (Trolls come in around 4-6 slots if you are stacking trolls in back :P )
Large Drones = 6-8 slots Cargo space

So the Bulldog has base body of 16. So I have 16 slots for Body modifications on the vehicle and 16 slots for Weapons Mods and spent 3 slots for secret compartment just because it's where we can keep the snacks without the damn troll decker digging into them all the time. I also go with Chameleon coating because it could be handy changing the van's colours. I also put in a standard sized weapon mount that pops out when we need it (aka internal visibility) which takes up 4 slots (2 for mount, +2 for being internal visible- so when not in use you don't see it on the outside) from my Weapon Mod column.
That leaves me with 11 slots for further modifications in the Body section, 12 slots for weapon playing  and 9 slots of effective space left. (16 slots for Body mods, minus 3 for the secret compartment, am not counting Chameleon toward cargo space but that internal hiding weapon mount from Weapon Mods does so minus 4).

Now lets say you have one Ares Duelist  and two GM-Nissan Doberman.
That's roughly 9 Body worth of drone (assuming the upper use of 3 slots for medium, slimmer models might only be a 2 ) so you should be able to fit everything in the remaining cargo section but then you won't have much room for anything else unless its sitting on someone's lap when they are in their seats. 
Some drones may also fold down some in their downtime and take up less space so if the Doberman in inactive mode folds down a bit (making it a 2) you could stack another on top (3 for the Duelist, 2 each for sleeping Dobbies so could cram 3 of them in for a total space taken up of 9)

Now suppose you went with additional seats increasing seats from 6 to 9 (50% increase) for 2 Mod slots from Body modifications.  This would drop your free Cargo space down to 7 slots, but I would also say that is just when the seats are empty, because you can stack stuff on the added seats.  If someone is occupying the added seats that would pretty much eat up a lot of the cargo space at 2 cargo slots per person (figure even if the person were 3 slot sized part of this is already factored into the seats), leaving just 1 cargo slot for goods,/drones.  So you could seat the Duelist in one seat and 2 of the Dobbies in pack mode on the other two seats but not much else beyond that 1 spare cargo slot behind the seats.

Remember the regular seats already there do NOT count toward reducing further cargo slots nor do people sitting in those. 
So if you are only carrying 5 people you could use that 6th original seat as extra cargo space using the math above.

If we had left the weapon mount as external only that would have saved us 4 slots of cargo space as external only really shouldn't count toward internal space, and then you could have loaded up some more drones or maybe some cargo like that Executive you just extracted and hog tied before throwing her in the back of the van. 

Also note we have not stuffed anything in the secret compartment, but will leave that to the GM to decide what you can fit in there.




Again it's very rough and will need tweaking but could serve as a starting point.


  So they still don't tell use how much cargo space a unmodded vehicle has but give rules for how much cargo space we lose with mods?  :-\ uhgg

« Last Edit: <12-18-15/1334:13> by Fabe »

Sendaz

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« Reply #26 on: <12-18-15/1353:15> »

  So they still don't tell use how much cargo space a unmodded vehicle has but give rules for how much cargo space we lose with mods?  :-\ uhgg

 Also while reading over the table of contents preview I didn't see drone racks list in the mods. did they leave out drone racks?
Sorry for the confusion.
You were asking how many medium drones could you fit in a Bulldog, which normally has Body 16 and seats 6, if all 6 seats were taken. 
There is no set rule for size of the drones, beyond some fluff in some cases, nor do they do list how much cargo space you actually have that I can see. 
Even the smuggling compartment doesn't really say how much you can put in it, beyond it may run between 10% to 20% of the total vehicle size, leaving it to the GM to decide. 

They do give us Mod slots based on the Body for making modifications to the vehicle.

My write up above was trying to use the Body Slot method provided to make something to equate to cargo space, but it is strictly my own on the fly rule of thumb sort of thing as I stated it was very rough. Will continue to tinker with it.

Drone racks are found under Vehicle Mods, Weapon Modification subsection, pg 160




« Last Edit: <12-18-15/1354:52> by Sendaz »
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gradivus

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« Reply #27 on: <12-18-15/1526:31> »
Will be nabbing a PDF once money comes in.

Isn't that always the way :(
I'll have it sooner or later
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Fabe

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« Reply #28 on: <12-18-15/1751:54> »

  So they still don't tell use how much cargo space a unmodded vehicle has but give rules for how much cargo space we lose with mods?  :-\ uhgg

 Also while reading over the table of contents preview I didn't see drone racks list in the mods. did they leave out drone racks?
Sorry for the confusion.
You were asking how many medium drones could you fit in a Bulldog, which normally has Body 16 and seats 6, if all 6 seats were taken. 
There is no set rule for size of the drones, beyond some fluff in some cases, nor do they do list how much cargo space you actually have that I can see. 
Even the smuggling compartment doesn't really say how much you can put in it, beyond it may run between 10% to 20% of the total vehicle size, leaving it to the GM to decide. 

They do give us Mod slots based on the Body for making modifications to the vehicle.

My write up above was trying to use the Body Slot method provided to make something to equate to cargo space, but it is strictly my own on the fly rule of thumb sort of thing as I stated it was very rough. Will continue to tinker with it.

Drone racks are found under Vehicle Mods, Weapon Modification subsection, pg 160

 Ok thanks for clearing things up. I was really hoping to see some  actual rules for cargo,did previous rigger books have any ?

Haywire

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« Reply #29 on: <12-18-15/1825:59> »
Rigger 3 had rules for just everything, is a safe bet to say it hadcrules for cargo.
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