[UnLimiTeD]

In the Interest of Brand Awareness:
The Sony Goldfish is described as Renraku Goldfish in it's own fluff.

[falar]

Speed

Water   Spd*15KPH      Spd*12.5m/turn   
Ground   Spd*30KPH      Spd*25m/turn   
Rotor   Spd*60KPH      Spd*50m/turn   
Jet           Spd*600KPH      Spd*500m/turn

So, I know Wakshaani posted these rates in this thread or the Rigger 5.0 announcement thread ... but are the drone movement rates actually anywhere in the books? I have been scouring to find them and only find a very general note that Jet beats Rotor beats Ground beats Water, but nothing super specific like the KPH values.

[RiggerBob]

Page 181 has a listing on relative speeds and modifying factors (0.8 water, 1 ground, 3 rotor, 4 jet) but that neither tells us how fast 4P is (P is for plane? pedestrian? pigeons?^^  I first assumed plane, then found the tunneler to have a speed of 0P) nor how a 0R drone moves anything faster than 0*3=0...

Sadly this isn't the first time in 5th edition that i get the feeling some (co-)writer answers questions based on what he planned to include without actually writing it down or based on a "finished" book, that got heavily edited/cut before publishing. 

PS: What's that compiled tables entry under "Seven"? There are 7 sub-entries for the 7 different base models and one additional line that doesn't make sense.

PPS: And of course these factors (3 for rotory and 4 for jets) aren't even close to the speed table above^^ (Based on the table it should be x0.5, x1, x2, x20... At least there would be room for some P=plane mode between rotors and jets  )

[Herr Brackhaus]

Speed

Water   Spd*15KPH      Spd*12.5m/turn   
Ground   Spd*30KPH      Spd*25m/turn   
Rotor   Spd*60KPH      Spd*50m/turn   
Jet           Spd*600KPH      Spd*500m/turn

That doesn't really help. How do you determine speed for the purposes of Ramming, for example? If the vehicle is traveling faster than it's walking speed while Ramming, the pilot must make a vehicle test.

In short, one cannot just undo the concept of vehicles having a running and a walking speed without seriously rewriting the core rules. As far as I can tell, the optional chase combat rules does nothing to remedy this...

[Cabral]

Pages 184 and 46:
The Yamaha Nodachi has an availability of 12R despite having a nearly identical stat line to the Harley Nightmare (the Nodachi has +1 armor, -1 sensor, and +6,000 nuyen. The fluff says that it "Yamaha claims the bike was designed for the street and retrofitted for combat bikers" and "it always looks lethal so it rarely draws any more attention than regular bikes."

There is nothing in the stat line, standard features (it has none), or fluff that justify the restricted rating, but the fluff does not appear to be internally consistent. Apart from the fluff needing to be cleaned up, is there something else missing or is the restricted rating out of place?

[gradivus]

Speed

Water   Spd*15KPH      Spd*12.5m/turn   
Ground   Spd*30KPH      Spd*25m/turn   
Rotor   Spd*60KPH      Spd*50m/turn   
Jet           Spd*600KPH      Spd*500m/turn

That doesn't really help. How do you determine speed for the purposes of Ramming, for example? If the vehicle is traveling faster than it's walking speed while Ramming, the pilot must make a vehicle test.

In short, one cannot just undo the concept of vehicles having a running and a walking speed without seriously rewriting the core rules. As far as I can tell, the optional chase combat rules does nothing to remedy this...

I just extrapolated the KPH Wak posted to m/turn so the whining would stop.

the walk/run rate in the corebook make no sense, so why would this?
Seriously- I'm at 20m/turn at Spd 1, I'm running so -3.
I accelerate to spd 2 and stay at 20m/turn, no -3, but 21m/turn (since it exceeds the posted walk rate) is -3. Except for the SPD 1, every other SPD has exactly 1 rate that is walking, the rest is running.

They should have left Speed and Acceleration as an actual m/turn with 'run rate' listed.

So Speed 25/60...anything up to 25 is walking, 26 to 60 is running. Except...
Acc 10/15, if you accelerate more than 10 your running even if you haven't surpassed the 1st Spd listed (the whole pedal to the metal being harder to control than smooth acceleration).

[Herr Brackhaus]

Agreed, gradivus, the SR4 method would have been far less complicated if you ask me. That's partly why Wakshaani's comment confuses me so, because his statement directly contradicts key elements of vehicle combat from the core rulebook that as far as I can tell are not supplanted by Rigger 5.0.

[gradivus]

If I knew what to do about Handling/Speed for the SR5 limits, I would just use the 4e vehicles and mod rules...

[Finstersang]

The mess with the speed is one of the main reasons why I have been so reluctant to use Drones and Vehicles in Tactical Combat, even as GM. And this is sad: Nothing´s more Sci-Fi than Drones.But how am I supposed to do that if can´t really tell how these little beasts move? Let alone how to make them a threat...

The latter part can be fixed with custom gear and programms and by small changes to the way Autosofts and Sensor Targeting work. TBH, I dont´t mind the Limit on Autosofts run on the drone - but it should be allowed to use the drones Autosofts and RCC Autosofts at the same time! With the current rules, you still can only have a sufficient Drone Army by sticking to one drone model only. Also, the prepacked Programms for some Drones are basically useless.
And with Sensor Targeting, I´m always asking myself why there even is a penalty to detect metahuman Targets. Shouldn´t this be easier because of Body Heat, Sweat, Breathing etc.? Making Sensor targeting more valuable would also help to fix the Dice pool problem, plus it gives you that cool "target-acquired-target-eliminated"-vibe.

One can houserule everything. But when even something as basic as movement is not fixed by a supplement and it´s mostly just another slap in the face for the Drone Lovers - GM and PC alike -, you start to ask yourself why you even buy those supplements. If it weren´t for some neat stuff like the Swarm Rules and the vehicle modifications (It´s surprising how less bad everything about Rigger 5.0 is if you just use these for Drones as well - which, by the way, also seems to be the case in the "Core Vehicle Modifications" Infobox on p. 155), I´d consider this Supplement a waste.

So, since this thread is already shifting from "pure" Errata to an  "OMG, please fix this"-discussion: Please, Wakshaani! Try to make your Movement Table an official thing! There are already changes to the ever-beloved Bumblebee - why stop there?

Edit: Changed the post to sound less - well, erm, sore

Because you guys are right: Wakshaani is doing a great Job here by actually listening and responding to our criticism.     

[UnLimiTeD]

Putting up an Errata thread is a daunting task. 

[firebug]

Putting up an Errata thread is a daunting task. 

It really is.  You have to deal with a lot of people talking all at once, all asking different things or the same thing multiple times.  Some people can get very emotional about it, or start throwing around accusations.  And it's a lot of work to answer it all on top of the work Wakshaani is doing normally, I'm sure.  I'm very thankful he's been able to answer all he can.

[falar]

I'm very thankful he's been able to answer all he can.

Yeah, Wakshaani is kind of a rock star for good responsiveness and positive interaction with the community. It seems like he had a lot of things noted down from his playtesting and stuff that the editors failed to see were missing. As a freelancer, he's doing a great job and above and beyond what I'd expect. If anything, I'd expect things like Errata threads and whatnot to be run by actual Catalyst employees rather than freelancers.

But, in my head, once you've delivered your product and it's gone through editing, you're released from your hold and answering to the material. It is now fully the material and fault of the people who bought it from you and published it. So Wakshaani is going way, way, way far above and beyond what I would expect and I thank him for that.

[Herr Brackhaus]

@Wakshaani, this is how you generate tables using forumcode (quote my post if you want to see details; you can also find tons of BBCode table generators online):

NAME	HANDL	SPEED	ACCEL	BODY	ARMOR	PILOT	SENS	AVAIL	COST	REF
Shiawase Kanmushi (Micro)	4	0G	0	0	0	2	3	8	1,000¥	p. 465, SR5
S-B Microskimmer (Micro)	3	1R	1	0	0	2	2	6	1,000¥	p. 465, SR5
Horizon Flying Eye (Mini)	4	1R	1	1(1)	0	2	3	8	2,000¥	p. 465, SR5
MCT Fly-Spy (Mini)	4	1R	1	1(1)	0	2	3	0	2,000¥	p. 466, SR5
Aztechnology Crawler (Mini)	3	1G	1	1(1)	0	3	2	4	2,000¥	p. 466, SR5
Renraku Scuttler (Mini)	4	1G	1	1(0)	0	2	2	8	8,000¥
Lockheed Optic-X2 (Small)	4	4R	2	2(1)	3	3	3	10	21,000¥	p. 466, SR5
Ares Mercury (Small)	4/-	1G	1	2(1)	0	2	2	2	1,000¥
Ares Sentry V (Small)	4/-	1G	1	2(0)	6	3	2	4R	4,000¥
F-B Bumblebee (Medium)	4	0R	0	3(0)	12	3	3	12F	25,000¥	p. 23, Nothing Personal
Ares Duelist (Large)	4	1G	1	4(0)	9	3	2	8R	8,000¥	p. 466, SR5
GM-Nissan Doberman (Large)	3	2G	1	4(4)	9	3	3	4R	8,000¥	p. 466, SR5
MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone (Large)	4	2R	1	4(4)	6	3	3	6	8,000¥	p. 466, SR5
Aeroquip Dustoff (Large)	4	4R	2	4(1)	6	4	3	10R	40,000¥	p. 23, B&B
Caduceus 7 (Large)	4	2G	1	5(2)	3	2	1	12R	16,500¥	p. 23, B&B

That being said, what am I missing regarding the Renraku Scuttler, Ares Mercury, and Ares Sentry V? I can't find any stats on these in the core books. Also, what the heck happened to the Dustoff? It was 12K in Bullets and Bandages; it got +1 Handling, speed remained at 4 but got Rotor, -2 Acceleration, Body remains at 4 but 3 Mod Points are used, +1 Armor, same pilot and sensor, and a cost increase of 28k?

Also, any chance of getting updated stats for some of the drones that appear in missions and adventures, like the ones in Hard Target (see below), Lockdown, and Stolen Souls?

Reference:

NAME	HANDL	SPEED	ACCEL	BODY	ARMOR	PILOT	SENS	AVAIL	COST	REF
Ammo Drone (Small Drone)	2	2	2	2	4	3	2	5	3,000¥	p. 189, HT
Reloading Drone (Medium Drone)	4	3	2	3	4	3	2	6R	4,500¥	p. 189, HT
Mitsuhama Akiyama (Medium Drone)	5	3	2	4	6	3	3	24F	200,000¥	p. 190, HT
Sparring Drone (Large Drone)	3	2	2	4	2 (Special)	3	3	6	5,000¥	p. 190, HT
MCT Iron Dragon (Large)	5	5	3	6	14	4	4	-	-	p. 227, Lockdown
Bust-A-Move 2nd Gen (Medium)	4	3	1	2	1	2	2	-	700-1,500¥	p. 187, Stolen Souls
Cyberspace Designs Dragonfly (Small)	4	3	2	1	1	3	2	12R	2,500¥	p. 187, Stolen Souls
GMC Snath'n'Grab (Large)	3	4	2	2	4	3	3	12F	8,000¥	p. 187, Stolen Souls
Modified Dassault Janitorial Drone (Large)	2	2	2	10	2	2	2	8	10,000¥	p. 187, Stolen Souls
Transys Office Maid (Medium)	3	2	2	3	0	4	3	4	8,000¥	p. 187, Stolen Souls
Modified Renraku Manservant-3 (Large)	2	2	2	3	5	3	3	14F	9,000¥	p. 187, Stolen Souls

[Herr Brackhaus]

This thread also brought up the question about underbarrel grenade launchers (and underbarrel weapons in general). Why are these specified on the Standard size mount (3 MP)? Does an Ares Alpha need both a Large (4 MP, assault rifle) and a Standard (3 MP, under-barrel grenade launcher) mount, for a total of 7MP? Or is it something else entirely.

[ScytheKnight]

This thread also brought up the question about underbarrel grenade launchers (and underbarrel weapons in general). Why are these specified on the Standard size mount (3 MP)? Does an Ares Alpha need both a Large (4 MP, assault rifle) and a Standard (3 MP, under-barrel grenade launcher) mount, for a total of 7MP? Or is it something else entirely.

That just seemed like a straight forward case of you can use it to mount the smaller under barrel grenade launcher as a separate weapon system.

But as one of my players pointed out, the Tiny Weapon Mount can fire a single bullet or dart... but has no stats.