[Soahl]

Well after the advice here and in the linked thread I'm going to go back to using pistols and the Ares V. If I'm calculating correctly this gets me Agility (3) + Skill (3) + semi-auto specialization (2) + smartlink (2) + personalized grip (1) = 11 dice which isn't bad for a secondary skill and if I add in improve abilty agility I can bump that up to a potential 15 dice.

Just a quick note: Personalized Grip only gives +1 Accuracy (Limit), not +1 Die (To Hit).

Pistols are a solid choice. I think they're an underrated weapon, myself.

[Senko]

Bah all these different effects for the same term fine 9 dice then or 13 with improved agility, weird smartlink give more bonus if you sacrifice part of your soul to it..

I'm getting the yamaha puser can just squeeze the cash for it or some extra ammo only have 24 regular bullets, suppose I could downgrade from traveller to low liefstyle. . .  I'll put the defiance down as a future purchase though. How do you double size the magazine don't recall that modification from anywhere?

[Jack_Spade]

Double sized magazines are in Hard Target, cost 35 NY and aren't a modification - just a larger magazine.

[Senko]

Ah don't have that one.

[Rooks]

course larger magazine means harder to conceal

[Jack_Spade]

Only if you have them loaded in from the start.

[Whiskeyjack]

if I add in improve abilty agility

This isn't a Thing, so I'm not sure if you mean an Attribute Boost: Agility, Increase Agility the spell, or Improved Ability: Pistols the adept power.

At any rate, 11 dice isn't bad, but you might miss having the option of denying defense dice with auto-fire.

[bdyer]

How do you think you can sneak a bow?

Well, considering that bows are Legal, not even Restricted, there are actually quite a few places you can take them openly. Unlike, say, most automatics. When you really need to sneak a bow into a place that you couldn't just walk in with it, well, you'd be doing that with the rifle anyways, and the ability to walk with your weapon openly past the Knights to and from the job isn't something to take lightly.

Most automatics are R, meaning, have a license, and are eminently more concealable than bows.

I would think that if you want to focus on some backup weapon, that you need something your magic cannot do innately.  Since its extremely easy to sneak in with no weapon and stunbolt someone...  I would think you want a high damage weapon that can be used in long battle scenarios.  A pistol doesn't do it well.   An assault rifle or a bow or a sword with magic fingers would all satisfy that niche.

[Beta]

I would think that if you want to focus on some backup weapon, that you need something your magic cannot do innately.  Since its extremely easy to sneak in with no weapon and stunbolt someone...  I would think you want a high damage weapon that can be used in long battle scenarios.  A pistol doesn't do it well.   An assault rifle or a bow or a sword with magic fingers would all satisfy that niche.

One advantage of  pistol is its 'go (almost) anywhere' status.  Because you don't always know when you are going to be walking into a nasty background count or be facing crazy levels of counterspelling.

Anecdote time: The shaman in my game probably hasn't gone through two full clip of ammo for his light pistol in over 200 karma worth of play.  But not long ago he got pulled into a quick run to disrupt a ritual casting -- one side in a ritual dual between hermetic mages had her lodge disrupted and wanted quick payback before the other guy dropped the ritual on her.  Shaman had to move fast before the ritual is completed, finally sneaks into the basement where the target lodge is  -- and find out that it is not some scruffy thing put together with mas from Mages-R-Us but a very high rating lodge carved into the concrete walls, put together with metal -- and occupied by a ritual team of six.  The background count for shamanic magic would be high and he was outnumbered badly by a team of magicians.  Clearly 'not as advertised.'

So he pretty quickly decided he had three choices: start a fire that would force an evacuation of the building (but risk the inhabitants in the slum apartments above), give up, or take out the leader of the ritual.  He deactivates his foci, drops sustained spells, readies his pistol and steps into the lodge.  Simple action to take aim, simple action to shoot a single shot.  He uses edge to push the limit, and turns his 4 agility+4 pistols skill into fifteen dice (5 edge, laser sight, take aim), and rides exploding sixes to drop the magician into overflow (caught him by surprise, so no defense dice).  Backlash as the ritual goes down takes out two of the other five and leaves the other three heavily hurt, letting the shaman make his getaway (directly into the strongest mana barrier he could pay his way into, just to be on the safe side). 

Granted that he had some amends to make to Cat after such a direct solution, but the real point is that sometimes you will need a mundane solution, but you don't know when someday will come.  So I'd choose whatever you feel most comfortable having with you most of the time.

[All4BigGuns]

As a Mage, just take a rank or two in Pistols--just enough to have an excuse to carry one. You're a Mage, not a shooter, so it doesn't actually matter if you can hit the broadside of a barn.

[Mirikon]

Good anecdote, Beta. I've been in that kind of situation myself. There's a reason why, whenever I play a character with any kind of combat focus (whether Awakened or not), I always have a melee and a ranged weapon skill (and Astral Combat, if a mage). Sure, I may have Blades (Swords) at 6(+2), and Pistols (Semi-Automatics) at 1(+2), but that still means when I need to hit someone at range, and I'm not willing to risk drain, I still have a decent (8 dice or so) shot at hitting them. Other times, I'll have Archery (Bows) at 5(+2) and Unarmed combat at 2. It all depends on the character, but I always have melee and ranged options available.

Now, as far as weapon choices go, I tend to look at it like this: I want a weapon that is going to be threatening enough that it will keep the random crazies from approaching me, but not threatening enough that it calls down all the Knights or other such people's attention on me, on top of the 'Geek the Mage First' syndrome. A heavy pistol or bow fits into this category nicely. That'll do fine for like 84% of the situations you'll be in. 15%, you're going to be in no-weapons zones, so you want something you can conceal (unarmed combat or a concealed blade are the winners here). The last 1%, well, you're going in hot and heavy, and maybe in those cases having points in automatics would be helpful so you can carry an assault rifle and know what you're doing because the lightly armed guy in a group of people loaded for war screams 'mage'. But that's an outlier. Usually, if you're the mage, you want everyone else to seem more threatening than you, because that may buy you the first pass or two of people shooting at someone else, instead of you. Once you start lighting off spells, though, it turns to geeking you first, then they'll turn back to the people with the assault rifles or heavy weapons.

[Whiskeyjack]

As a Mage, just take a rank or two in Pistols--just enough to have an excuse to carry one. You're a Mage, not a shooter, so it doesn't actually matter if you can hit the broadside of a barn.

I don't agree with this, because I don't always want to suck Drain every pass to do stuff in combat, or immediately out myself for geeking.

[All4BigGuns]

Using magic is always a tactical decision. Most times it's going to be better to risk a bit of stun (or even physical) drain to end the encounter quickly than it is to act like the Street Sam and pull out a gun. In the case of stun, I'd rather risk a few points of that--which stands a good chance of being gone in an hour--than risk dying in a protracted fire fight.

There are a couple of tropes in SR that need to be downplayed much more. The 'geek the mage' and 'never deal with a dragon' are the biggest, as enforcing these too much can move into the realm of punishing the player(s) for playing what they want to play (in the former case) or for playing the GM's adventure (in the latter case).

[Mirikon]

No, 'Geek the Mage First' is there for a very important reason. A mage can royally screw up a team's day if they don't have magic of their own to compensate. Sure, not all are combat mages or force-multipliers like illusionists or summoners, but you can't tell which is which until it is too late, so you geek them first. And if you can't spot a mage, your next priority target is the troll with the assault cannon. Sure, the stealthy assassin type or the street samurai may be the more dangerous threat overall, but you take out the mages and heavy weapons first because there's just too much at risk there.

Likewise, the 'Never deal with a dragon' trope is there for a good reason. When you deal with a dragon, you become part of their games, and their games are always about what is best for them. That's no different than being a corporate runner or on the payroll of the local Mafia family, but dragons have millenia of baggage that follows them around, usually with other dragons. Which means that, in addition to the stuff involving corporate politics, stealing magic artifacts, and influencing the locals, you got a good chance of going up against immortal elves and other dragons. Moreover, it is possible to outplay a corporate raider or Yakuza oyabun. Dragons are, literally, several times smarter than you, and have been playing these games for longer than most civilizations have been around.

Now, as far as drain versus shooting someone, you're right, Guns, if you're only considering one fight a day. But a smart runner doesn't plan on a single combat the whole run. They consider what happens if they have to shoot their way out of a situation, and still have more to do. Risking a few points of drain is fine. But when you've already got a few points on your condition monitor, those few points become more and more problematic, and you have to choose your spells carefully. Having a nonmagical attack option increases your versatility and stamina dramatically. That's why I always have at least two extra clips of ammo on me, even if my gun rarely clears its holster.

[Kincaid]

Mages also need an option for use in situations that involve a high background count/different aspect.