[ZombieAcePilot]

All guns make a loud boom unless you silence them. Silencers are illegal and stick off the front of the gun. I'd say they definitely bump up the concealment factor (since a suppressor is easily doubling the slide length) and make them a pain to carry. You could keep them seperate, but then you have to take an action to screw it on if you get into a fight.

If you want silent in an encounter where you made an oopsie and got caught with your pants down you need an internal silencer. For that you have the ares viper sliver gun or a light fire (the illegal one) as main options for pistols. The light fire has low damage, so gel is less likely to work well. The sliver gun only fires flechette.

My advice: the gun you carry when out on the street and not on a run is different from the one you carry when trying to ninja into a facility. As a face you have failed if you are on a run and get caught unable to talk your way out of it. The gunshot won't matter because the guard confronting you reported via DNI as a free action before this all went down. Killing or knocking him out isn't liable to silence an alarm (since his bio monitor might set one off anyhow). You've been made. It's time to go loud.

[kyoto kid]

Warning on the drug option:
Even immediate working drugs only kick in at the and of the round, leaving your attacker plenty of opportunity to hurt you.

That's why I recommend the taser: It takes -5 from Ini and imposes a penalty to their attacks. Combined with dirty trick you can take a full 10 ini from your opponent.

...yeah but how does one do a dirty trick with a taser, particularly one with attached wires?   According to page 195 of the core rules performing a dirty trick reduces target's dice pools by -4, not initiative.

[ZombieAcePilot]

He's thinking of the shake up called shot, I believe.

[kyoto kid]

...however, called shots are a -4 to the pool, not very likely to succeed with only a total pool of 11.

Oh and yes, I meant the Light Fire 75 (forgot there was two different models).  This is the one loaded with capsule rounds as the toxin/drug is more effective than the base DV of the weapon and capsule rounds are limited to light pistol ranges anyway.

[Jack_Spade]

Yeah, shake up, sorry mixed that up.

And yes, with such a limited pool you won't do any fancy tricks, but it just goes to show that the taser packs the equivalent of a -4 trick by default.

If your heart is set on a concealable light pistol, you might want to look at the Colt Agent Special with hand loaded gel rounds. It's cheap and it packs a tremendous punch for such a small packet.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

One thing on the Salveti Guardian, R&G has had an errata that removed burst as complex on both the pistols that had burst as complex only.

[Senko]

How dissapointing.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

Why? Otherwise, the gun was a waste of paper space, kinda like the nurfed to oblivion bumblebee. It makes for a unique heavy pistol, but the is still other equally valid options. And it is still not quite an actual machine pistol, which are connected to the automatics group. Besides my go to pistol is the Remington Suppressor, which is the only machine pistol with AP and has dv of 7, which several MPs do as well. Only complaint is small magazine size (15 rounds) and no full auto. For heavy pistols I would rather carry a warhawk if I have high dice pools, room sweaper, or Man Hunter. The Guardian and LA Mat (sp?) get honorable mention. The predator is just not on my list of heavy pistols I would want to use.

[kyoto kid]

...just a point of information,  this is a Missions character and Hard Targets has not yet been accepted for Missions play so any of the new weapons and enhancements are not legal.

RE: Svalette Guardian: Due to only a 12 round clip, two actions of burst fire and even this character would have to reload before the end of a combat turn.  I think she'll stick with the "tried & true" Predator (also costs about half).

Basically, for her the gun is only a last ditch backup if all else fails (and hopefully her sammy, mage, and/or adept chummers will get the jump should all drek break loose, and the decker already has turned off a couple of the oppos' guns while she was doing the talking).

Still not sure about the Defiance Shocker as she would need to deal with the tethered darts after the first shot.  Stick & Shock in a Predator would be 6DV -5 AP plus the electrical side effect with the benefit of nearly 4 x the ammo capacity and rapid fire capability.

[Duellist_D]

...just a point of information,  this is a Missions character and Hard Targets has not yet been accepted for Missions play so any of the new weapons and enhancements are not legal.

RE: Svalette Guardian: Due to only a 12 round clip, two actions of burst fire and even this character would have to reload before the end of a combat turn.  I think she'll stick with the "tried & true" Predator (also costs about half).

Basically, for her the gun is only a last ditch backup if all else fails (and hopefully her sammy, mage, and/or adept chummers will get the jump should all drek break loose, and the decker already has turned off a couple of the oppos' guns while she was doing the talking).

Still not sure about the Defiance Shocker as she would need to deal with the tethered darts after the first shot.  Stick & Shock in a Predator would be 6DV -5 AP plus the electrical side effect with the benefit of nearly 4 x the ammo capacity and rapid fire capability.

Difference between Predator and Savalette Guardian are a measily 150 Nuyen, thats really nothing.
Stick with the Savalette.
Burst Fire is an OPTION, not a necessity, you can always let her Fireselector stay on SemiAuto which leaves her at the same stats as the Pred sans three Bullets in the Mag.
But if really NEED the Burst because you face a someone with high Dodge or want to but a Bulls-Eye Tripple Burst into somebody to increase the AP, you have the option right in front of your face.

The thing about Tasers is, they are absolutely legal.
No SIN-Checks, maybe you could even carry them into some corporate buildings without problems.
Single Shot IS a disadvantage, but think about when you' would actually use the Shocker?
In my opinion its a Weapon for sneaky surprise Attacks on isolated targets.
One, maybe two Shots should be sufficient and thats an area where neither the Ammo capaciity, nor the wired Darts are an issue.

[gradivus]

If you only have one firearm skill, I'll stick with Automatics.

There's machine pistols that you can keep under your suit jacket for meets.

When you go on the actual run, if there isn't a need for Face-mode to get in, you can carry a SMG.

And if you're going to places where all hell breaks loose on a regular basis, you use an assault rifle.


If you hae two weapon skills, there is something to be said of monowhip/longarms combo.

[kyoto kid]

...my issue with machine pistols is conceal as well as mediocre recoil compensation (especially for a character with a low strength) and accuracy.  When using specialised ammo like drug/toxin filled capsule rounds, they can be very expensive to use.

Also only a light pistol or a taser can be used with a hidden arm slide.

[Novocrane]

When using specialised ammo like drug/toxin filled capsule rounds, they can be very expensive to use.

Pepper Punch Capsules are the cheapest firearm ammo available, at 15¥ per 10. (legal and unrestricted, too)

Hidden Arm Slide can be replaced by a Concealed Quickdraw Holster, which is 75¥ cheaper. It doesn't have the wireless bonus, but then again, it doesn't advertise it's presence, either.

[Senko]

...just a point of information,  this is a Missions character and Hard Targets has not yet been accepted for Missions play so any of the new weapons and enhancements are not legal.

RE: Svalette Guardian: Due to only a 12 round clip, two actions of burst fire and even this character would have to reload before the end of a combat turn.  I think she'll stick with the "tried & true" Predator (also costs about half).

Basically, for her the gun is only a last ditch backup if all else fails (and hopefully her sammy, mage, and/or adept chummers will get the jump should all drek break loose, and the decker already has turned off a couple of the oppos' guns while she was doing the talking).

Still not sure about the Defiance Shocker as she would need to deal with the tethered darts after the first shot.  Stick & Shock in a Predator would be 6DV -5 AP plus the electrical side effect with the benefit of nearly 4 x the ammo capacity and rapid fire capability.

Difference between Predator and Savalette Guardian are a measily 150 Nuyen, thats really nothing.
Stick with the Savalette.
Burst Fire is an OPTION, not a necessity, you can always let her Fireselector stay on SemiAuto which leaves her at the same stats as the Pred sans three Bullets in the Mag.
But if really NEED the Burst because you face a someone with high Dodge or want to but a Bulls-Eye Tripple Burst into somebody to increase the AP, you have the option right in front of your face.

The thing about Tasers is, they are absolutely legal.
No SIN-Checks, maybe you could even carry them into some corporate buildings without problems.
Single Shot IS a disadvantage, but think about when you' would actually use the Shocker?
In my opinion its a Weapon for sneaky surprise Attacks on isolated targets.
One, maybe two Shots should be sufficient and thats an area where neither the Ammo capaciity, nor the wired Darts are an issue.

Didn't the above poster say burst was removed from it?

[gradivus]

...my issue with machine pistols is conceal as well as mediocre recoil compensation (especially for a character with a low strength) and accuracy.  When using specialised ammo like drug/toxin filled capsule rounds, they can be very expensive to use.

Also only a light pistol or a taser can be used with a hidden arm slide.

The Remmington Suppressor as is: ACC 6, Dmg 7p, AP -1, No RC
Burst Fie 1 auto RC 1 minimum from STR = 1 unacounted at most.
So you lose 1 die from your pool; they lose 2 from their defense: net advantage you.
And it has am intergrated  sound supperessor while only be restricted.

There are other M-Ps that can take gas vent sysytems- so I really don't see a rcoil comp problem unless your talking 12 shot FA and even then the guy is losing 11 Dice from his defense while you only lose unaccounted recoil. So net advantage to you still.