[Senko]

I'm currently watching Mr Norrel and Jonathan Strange on TV and it got me wondering how powerful shadowrun magic would have been if it had awakened earlier. That is rather than awakening happening in the late 20th century it had happened at the beginning (same goblinzation/etc) or in the 19th, 18th, 16th and so on. In a world with limited technology or none how much of an impact do you think the awakening would have had? No cybertech, no rapid communication or telegraphs rather than cell phones. Adepts, magic, real orks/trolls/etc, a world where people don't see past their village, a world when white men discovered afrika/america/australia they'd had to deal with people turning into elves or goblins, where the native shamans really had power to communicate with spirits or where the witch to be burnt at the stake can summon up illusions to allow her to escape.

How do you think history would have differed if it occured during the 1960's era of free love and drugs, during the height of WW2 when the Nazi's where searching for occult items and powers, during the Victorian era when they were exploring and experimenting but still somewhat could accept the supernatural especially if it could scientifically tested and proven (alchemy, hermetic), during the mideval era when one village might not hear what was happening in another, during the height of the roman era, any time period you like?

[Sendaz]

It would have been a pretty big shakeup.

Imagine what the US would have looked like if during the 1800s magic came back and you had your Indian uprising then backed with Shamans? 
Would it have still been the same world power if it had been fractured early on?

Likewise the return of Dragons in an earlier time probably would have shifted the balance of power more into the wyrm's claws.

[Senko]

Well that's the interesting part of the question to me? How much would history change with magic especially shadowrun magic present. To use your example the indian uprising would have been backed by shamans but would the american's have their own hermetic mages? How long has it been present, if it just occured then yes the Indians with their continuing shamanic tradition would probably have the advantage as it started really working but on the flipside how would they handle tribal members transforming into elves, dwarves, orcs? How would the Americans? How would the shamans explain it? Even worse what if the uprising got delayed a decade or so as people adjusted to the meta-humans. Imagine a civil war in American between the Indians and the US army complete with shamans' vs mages? Of greater spirits being summoned or worse the great ghost dance. Then of course there's the knock on effects of an American divided up by the results of that when WW1 and WW2 occur.

As for the dragons yes they probably would be able to carve quite large empires out for themselves but then again back then the reaction to them would have been quite different.

[Sendaz]

While the Indians might have the initial advantage, there were plenty of hermetics circles in the US and Europe that they could have rallied.

On a side note, the US government might well have had to end up recruiting hougans from the voodoo traditions to help their war effort with these folk possibly leveraging for emancipation for their people as payment for their assistance.

The metahuman issue probably would have gotten ugly though.  Enslavement of the less pretty races like orcs and dwarves while elves might have enjoyed a certain social standing.

[Senko]

Which could have interest repurcusions on how society develops if the US president needs to keep a hougan on tap to advise on the potential hazards of their actions from a voudan perspective. It could also shift the way societies develop if mage's become aware of the dangers of toxic spirits/mages before society has the technology to create huge deposits for them "You have to stop the illegal dumping Mr president its twisting the natural spirits and turning them into . . . an abomination already dozens have died to their attacks and even some magicians have become twistted."

As for the orks/trolls it'd be interesting to see if they joined the negroe's/indians as second class citizens or caused them to be treated better because they are at least human.

[Sendaz]

As for the orks/trolls it'd be interesting to see if they joined the negroe's/indians as second class citizens or caused them to be treated better because they are at least human.

I think I understand what you want to say, but the way you said that is.... interesting.

[Senko]

Worded that way quite deliberately I assure you given the likely attitudes of the time.

[Adamo1618]

My guess is that the Awakened people would be quite superior to their mundane friends. 2075 has a way of evening the score with augmentations, so that normal people can keep up with adepts or spellcasters. The question is; would there be enough Awakened to keep the others in check? Probably not. Perhaps mages would be even more oppressed? Perhaps they would start an own faction?

[Sendaz]

Worded that way quite deliberately I assure you given the likely attitudes of the time.

So kind of like how it is in Aztlan where what caste based on your heritage you are from is primary and metatype is secondary?

So a Orc from a prim and proper family back in Boston would be more socially acceptable than a Sioux Elf from the Midwest?

[Senko]

Well that's the thing about Shadowrun magic its much lower level than some other systems out there and given the common opinion of 1% of the population while a single mage/adept/mystic adept may be able to aquire some personal power in a village or two if they got too big, too threatening to the local authorities rather than subjugating to them e.g mage lord vs court wizard they could be pulled down by enough normal troops if they were willing to pay the cost. Even in an era of swords and boy and arrows they could be pulled down and killed by a large enough group and that assumes they aren't stabbed asleep or poisoned. Which doesn't even consider things like Indian or Aborignal tribes where even if a mage starts being able to wield real magic their own culture defines and determines their role so they aren't likely to suddenly start trying to rule it. Now hermetic circles of learned men are a different matter but the question there is how far they'd be willing to share the same views before they move to secure their own personal power as the "orthodox" magic.

@Sendaz
Possibly  depends on the culture and how they view those races in their historical trappings or the change in general. The question is which way they'd go whether it'd be "She's a monster" or "Shes from the Boston Winchester." I can see it going either way depending on the era in some anyone turning into an orc/trol/elf even would be viewed a changeling child not born to their parents and with more of them real and confirmable they may shift their views on the other races. In another given how widespread it would be they might be forced to accept it since it could happen to anyone.

[MijRai]

There's also the question of how accepted the Awakened are...  I mean, using the 1800s as an example, the Salem Witch Trials were a bit over a century previous.  While it isn't the religious expansion of previous eras, people probably wouldn't react kindly to spells and pointy ears popping up everywhere.  Rewind to the era of the Inquisition, and we're seeing massive bloodshed and strife over the Awakening, something that would make the modern one look like a cake-walk in comparison.  People are relatively accepting of the new and unknown nowadays, so tossing in what many would consider to be evil to their culture wouldn't go well in societies heavily influenced by Europe.  That said, slavery could have been less of an issue at that point.  A lot of the regions known for the slave trade had traditional beliefs, and their shamans could have made those kinds of activities...  Unfeasible.  A lot of the European expansionism could have been brought to a screeching halt as well...  If the Aztecs knew spirits of fire and had a magical cure for the various diseases the conquistadors brought, would they have fallen to the thundersticks and plague the Spaniards brought?  Would China have acquiesced to Britain's belligerency?  I'm not even going to touch on the paranatural effects of the Awakening; the reintroduction of unicorns, behemoths roaming the USA, devil rats, hellhounds and barghests in peoples' homes, orichalcum, deepweed medications (or terror campaigns against it), the Infected, shedim, dragons...

That said, if a cabal of magic users get together, they'd utterly dominate whatever they choose to get into.  Politics?  Memory wiping spells, mind control/influence, mind probes, etc.  Samaritan acts?  Healing, using spells to provide shelter, etc.  War?  Invisibility, freedom of movement, spirits, water purification, healing, not to mention battle-spells (really, the least important of changes they'd bring).  Communication is revolutionized by using spirit messengers or spells, magical medicine is a marvel, etc.  It makes magic users a commodity to those willing to use them, and a nightmare to those opposed.  It'd probably kickstart technological innovation in every field it touches, because mundane people would be afraid and want ways to compete/exceed magic. 

By the way Senko, one percent isn't an opinion, its in the books.  It's also a blanket one percent over everything from the guy who gets hives when near a mana-line to that insane, raving hobo driven mad by their talent to your average mage to your highly initiated immortal elf.   

[Senko]

That's why I said commonly accepted as the active, powerful part of that is less than 1% and it covers everything from the person determined to reject their magic to as you said an immortal elf.

Its also on which side the cabal comes down on you could have had a cabal of gentlemen mages determined to keep magic from interfering with the rules of law.

This is why I said pick an era, any era since like you pointed out the reaction during the height of the spanish inquisition would be very different to that during the roman empire or WW2.