[Devil]

So I'm curious if the social limit penalty for Securitech PPP is cumulative or if you just get a penalty of 1 total, no matter how many pieces you wear. The way it is in the table makes me think it is the latter, but I want to be sure.

[Raven2049]

cumulative, that is if their visible, but then again you have to have them visible to get the bonus sooo....

[Rooks]

cumulative, that is if their visible, but then again you have to have them visible to get the bonus sooo....

yep just like a bullet proof vest, now if I wear a Vashion Island or Mortimer of Island suit and jacket do those cancel each other out?

[CitizenJoe]

Start by asking if you are appropriately dressed for the situation.  Armor at a night club is inappropriate.   Armored vest on a security guard is not.  If it is inappropriate, adjust the subject's attitude, typically to suspicious.  Next, make an etiquette test with modifiers to bypass the faux pas.  This brings you to your resting attitude, and now you add up bonuses and penalties for your charisma based tests.  Note that if you're speaking for a group, each member of the group committing the faux pas counts against your etiquette test.  So if you're the face, but the Sammies insist on attending the meeting in full riot gear, you've got to erase those mistakes first or you're likely to be doing hostile negotiations. 

[Devil]

Can anyone site anything semi-official saying they are cumulative? The way the table is drives me to question this.

[Herr Brackhaus]

I'd be tempted to say it isn't cumulative for a very simple reason.

Most other items that have accessories don't stack where features are concerned, like the SWAT Armor listed just above Securetech PPP on page 70 for example; wearing both the SWAT armor and helmet shouldn't give you a +4 Social limit to Intimidation tests and a -2 Social limit to all other social tests (i.e. +2 and -1 each, respectively), at least not in my opinion. If that's the case, wearing three pieces of PPP kit shouldn't stack for the purposes of decreasing your social limit.

[Novocrane]

Some pieces of armor raise the Social Limit of the wearer. These modifiers do not stack; only the highest modifier of any visible clothing item counts (and “visible” means seeing enough of it that viewers get a solid impression of what the garment does on the wearer.

Bonuses to social limit do not stack. Based on the wording, I'd say penalties are not limited in such a fashion.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Or it could just be yet another example of lazy writing. Again, take other examples where multiple pieces are present (SWAT armor, milspec armor, etc); would you double up the negatives for these pieces for wearing the armor and the helmet?

[Novocrane]

I wouldn't offer modifiers for wearing the helmet. Social Limit modifiers are based on the outfit, and the helmet is part of an outfit, not the outfit itself.

[Herr Brackhaus]

And the PPP kits are all part of one outfit as far as I'm concerned. They're all armor accessories, so why should these three pieces stack for the purposes of negative modifiers when wearing a helmet with a suit of armor does not?

[Novocrane]

Try combining what I said, rather than picking it apart.

[Herr Brackhaus]

I'm honestly not sure what you mean by that. Care to elaborate?

[Novocrane]

When you take both sentences, there's no place for asking why PPP stacks with itself. Each outfit stacks with other outfits' penalties.

[Herr Brackhaus]

That's kind of my point, though. SecureTech PPP is one outfit comprised of three pieces, so whether you wear one or all three you get -1 to Social Limit, and not -(number of pieces worn).

[Raven2049]

but the argument against that is the fact that you specifically cant wear the vitals kit with anything covering the chest slot (armor vest/jacket full body armor etc) and the arms and legs kits, they cant be combined with FBA.

so you can wear the arms/legs kit with a armor vest and a FBA helmet, but you cant wear FBA with any of them.

actually re-reading and looking at things i think i'm going to change my answer, id say its a one and done basis on the thinking that it is a "set" of armor as novocrane is stating, just like the riot control armor is a set. and when you buy both the riot control armor and helmet you dont double up on the penaltys/bonuses that those types of gear give you.

however i think that if your stacking mutiple sets of items that have limit modifers like this they do stack EX: Armor Jacket, PPE legs/arms, Swat Helmet. you would have the following social penalties: Decrease Social Limit by 1, Gear Access, Increase Social Limit by 2 for Intimidation Tests (3 when wireless) and reduce it by 1 for all other Social Tests with the general public,

so you would be at an increase of 2 for intimidation tests, and a -2 for all other social tests (argument could be made that with security forces you would only be at a -1 because of the wording of the Swat Helmet)