[MijRai]

Nobody has to like them, but the whole 'denying personhood' bit is where I sort of get snagged.  They're sapient, can obviously act on their emotions/feelings, are self-aware.  Objectively calling them anything but people (even if they're some messed up, evil people who do need to be put down) detracts from the point of their existence in the game.  Which is part of why I've been so active in this conversation. 

And yes, how people play things is a very different can of worms than the setting's depiction.  I've had issues like that before as well.  I think all players have at one point or another. 

[Reaver]

Nobody has to like them, but the whole 'denying personhood' bit is where I sort of get snagged.  They're sapient, can obviously act on their emotions/feelings, are self-aware.  Objectively calling them anything but people (even if they're some messed up, evil people who do need to be put down) detracts from the point of their existence in the game.  Which is part of why I've been so active in this conversation. 

And yes, how people play things is a very different can of worms than the setting's depiction.  I've had issues like that before as well.  I think all players have at one point or another.

Oh, I don't deny that they were people. And I don't deny they are sapient. But they are no longer People-people. People are Omnivores, they can eat anything they like. Infected are not -they can only eat one thing, Us!

I put forth to you this supposition:

They were people. Now they are a walking infectious disease with the memories and feeling of the person they once were. 

Have sympathy for them. Have empathy for them.

And throw them in the bonfire.

[LordGrizzle]

Oh, I don't deny that they were people. And I don't deny they are sapient. But they are no longer People-people. People are Omnivores, they can eat anything they like. Infected are not -they can only eat one thing, Us!

Now I am intrigued. Would you consider an AI a person? One with human+ intelligence is what I am saying. And does it become less of a person if it wants to kill all humans (metahumans, if you want to strictly talk about Shadowrun).

[Reaver]

Oh, I don't deny that they were people. And I don't deny they are sapient. But they are no longer People-people. People are Omnivores, they can eat anything they like. Infected are not -they can only eat one thing, Us!

Now I am intrigued. Would you consider an AI a person? One with human+ intelligence is what I am saying. And does it become less of a person if it wants to kill all humans (metahumans, if you want to strictly talk about Shadowrun).

they are alive, yes. but they are not people.
AIs do not have a physical body.
AIs do not interact with the physical world (directly. They can interact through a medium, like a drone, sure.)
AI's have no mass. (ok, technically this is not exactly true as they are also formed from electrons, and electrons have mass.... )

They are a bunch of complex ones and zeros arranged in such a way as to give them sapience, but do not confuse Sapience for People.

Wikipedia, Wisdom (redirect from Sapience)
Sapience is often defined as wisdom, or the ability of an organism or entity to act with appropriate judgement, a mental faculty which is a component of intelligence or alternatively may be considered an additional faculty, apart from intelligence, with its own properties. Robert Sternberg[24] has segregated the capacity for judgement from the general qualifiers for intelligence, which is closer to cognizant aptitude than to wisdom. Displaying sound judgement in a complex, dynamic environment is a hallmark of wisdom.

The word sapience is derived from the Latin sapientia, meaning "wisdom".[25] Related to this word is the Latin verb sapere, meaning "to taste, to be wise, to know"; the present participle of sapere forms part of Homo sapiens, the Latin binomial nomenclature created by Carl Linnaeus to describe the human species. Linnaeus had originally given humans the species name of diurnus, meaning man of the day. But he later decided that the dominating feature of humans was wisdom, hence application of the name sapiens. His chosen biological name was intended to emphasize man's uniqueness and separation from the rest of the animal kingdom.

Something can be Sapient, but that doesn't mean it's people.

(and TBH, AIs and other spookies of the matrix is the reason why a couple of my character WILL NOT EVER use the matrix! And it is also the reason why several of my characters will)

[Senko]

Which is why I come down on the other side because I've had too much experience of the "sure you can imitate us but your not really a person" school of thought in games towards my characters and to a lesser extent in real life to deny it to other beings. In the past women were considered not people, in the past blacks were considered not people, in the past homsexuals were considered not people and even today they (and other groups) still have a lot of problems getting equal treatment. Fast forward 10 years and jump a dimension over now they are largely accepted but its the orcs and Trolls (as well as to a lesser extent the elves and dwarves) who are "not people". Go forward another 50 and they're starting to be accepted but its the infected, technomancers and AI's who's "personhood" is being actively denied.

For me they have problems but they are still people with all the rights and responsibilities that entails.

[Reaver]

Which is why I come down on the other side because I've had too much experience of the "sure you can imitate us but your not really a person" school of thought in games towards my characters and to a lesser extent in real life to deny it to other beings. In the past women were considered not people, in the past blacks were considered not people, in the past homsexuals were considered not people and even today they (and other groups) still have a lot of problems getting equal treatment. Fast forward 10 years and jump a dimension over now they are largely accepted but its the orcs and Trolls (as well as to a lesser extent the elves and dwarves) who are "not people". Go forward another 50 and they're starting to be accepted but its the infected, technomancers and AI's who's "personhood" is being actively denied.

For me they have problems but they are still people with all the rights and responsibilities that entails.

Funny how the Victorian Era set Race-relations back 1000 years.

If you look at ancient history, there was no real problem between the races, Yes they all fought amongst themselves, and slavery was a commonplace in EVERY society (People have this stupid silly idea that slavery only happened in the 18th/19th century, and only to Blacks, when in reality it happened in every society across the globe, from Native Americans to Aztec, from Europe to Japan.)

Women in history are a little more complex. They were both treasured as objects, and as property. Mostly because they are the only ones that can have children. And in an age where there are no antibiotics, or understanding of disease, and not to mention constant warring/raiding, Women were the only way to keep your community growing (thus they were the target of many raids, and the most protected and valuable object in your communities. But many societies in Ancient times allowed women to do and be anything they wanted (the Dacians, the Celts, the Thracians, Gauls,).

It's not until much, much later in our history (almost co-siding with the rise of Eugenics as a scientific method) do we see people being called "inferior" or "sub-human".

And sadly a lot of that has carried over today. (I guess it's the old saying about the genie...)



Now I find it interesting that you mention Orks and Trolls.

Well, on the surface view, and to the non-genetic scientist, you are going to have a VERY hard time telling someone that Orks and Trolls are People.

People don't have tusks protruding from their lower jaw.
People don't stand 3 meters tall with enlongated arms and horns growing out of their head. Or have 40 teeth in their mouth.

But, they are people. And Ork and Trolls are found in every society on the planet.

However, are the infected still people? No question that they once were, but just what has HMHVV done to them?

Can the infected reproduce naturally? (there have some hints that some variants can breed).
Can they gain nutrition from multiple food sources?

The answer to those 2 questions is thought to be "no" for the most part.

Most infected are sterile, so the only way for the infected to "reproduce" is to infect others.  THIS IS NOT NATURAL!
They can ONLY exist by consuming sapient food. They can't eat beef, or chicken, or pig....  again THIS IS NOT NATURAL!
Several infected can be sprayed with bullets, only to have the trauma heal up seconds later.... yet again THIS IS NOT NATURAL!

So, what you are telling me is that something that exists UNNATURALLY is a person?

No. By the very fact that they are unnatural, they are no longer people, they are something else.

And I call that "something else" a threat. And I deal with threats appropriately.

[LordGrizzle]

Well, on the surface view, and to the non-genetic scientist, you are going to have a VERY hard time telling someone that Orks and Trolls are People.

People don't have tusks protruding from their lower jaw.
People don't stand 3 meters tall with enlongated arms and horns growing out of their head. Or have 40 teeth in their mouth.

I don't agree with you even there. You might be right if you said HUMANS don't have tusks and stand 3+ meters. But people can. Actually you have to be more precise: UNMODIFIED HUMANS. By your logic even transhumans wouldn't be people. Hell, not even a person with real world cybernetics as they exist in real-world 2016 would be considered people anymore by that logic. Actually that last bit kind of plays into cyberpunk again with losing your humanity and soul if you replace parts of yourself.

[Senko]

I'm quite aware of the issues with slavery and women just making the point that at that time (and cultture) being a woman or being a black made you "not a person" and that attitude annoyingly still persists today such as getting the "let your husband deal with the car maintenance sweety" attitude of some repair shops.

> Most infected are sterile, so the only way for the infected to "reproduce" is to infect others.  THIS IS NOT NATURAL!

So are most mules.

> They can ONLY exist by consuming sapient food. They can't eat beef, or chicken, or pig....  again THIS IS NOT NATURAL!

Tree's can't eat beef, chicken or pig. Not saying they are sentient just pointing out not human species may have not human food sources that doesn't mean they aren't a people. What if hypothetically we encounter an alien species in real life that only exists by absorbing sunlight or eating arsenic would you define them as not human? What if you encounter a cannibal who will only eat people are they not a person? I'm not denying the later isn't a threat just saying it is still a person and if the person who choses to eat people is a person why isn't the being who HAS to? They may be a threat, they may be dangerous, they are a person.

> Several infected can be sprayed with bullets, only to have the trauma heal up seconds later.... yet again THIS IS NOT NATURAL!

Up to 4th ed the same applied to shifters then they took our regeneration away (while leaving the references to it). Technically speaking a troll adept can also do the same thing high body so it survives spraying with bullets then the heal spell plus say the unnatural healing quality and it heals up. Not to mention all the paranormal critters which have it still.

You keep saying "its not natural" but the simple fact is that infected are natural, its an awakened issue yes but they are the result of a virus that has been around for thousands of years not the result of genetic experimentation (aside from the Chupacabra). Nice or not it is natural and it may even have a very vital role in the ecology we aren't aware of. Wild theory maybe the infected are the planets way of trying to control metahumanity that is acting as an invasive species planetwide?

Again recognizing infected, shifters, orcs, technomancers, AI's as people with rights is NOT the same as saying a vampire has the right to feed on however they like. They are intelligent, they can reason, they can control their own urges, they may need to feed on sapient being but it doesn't have to be unwilling or even on something that isn't going to be lost anyway (my example of feeding on those who are about to get cyber/bioware that would cause the person to loose that essence anyway). I'm not arguing you don't contain, kill one who slaughters innocents for the fun of it, I am arguing that you do that by the law and under the same rules as everyone else i.e. innocent until proven guilty.

Still I think we're just going to go round and round in circles here as neither of us is likely to change our views. I just hope that you can recognize that the infected rights movement is quite a realistic phenomena given how many here would support it even if you personally view them as the Buffy style vampire i.e. the real person is dead and replaced by a virus puppet that should be burned.
For me any personal views aside I'd feel I HAVE to support the movement because while you personally draw the line at infected there are plenty of others out there who'd see me as an animal i.e. not having any human rights and probably should be chipped, collared and kept on a lead when out in public because I'm a vulpine shifter. There are others who would happily stone or kill me for being a mage. There are probably even more who feel as a woman I should not really be trying to do certain "mens jobs", intolerance and discrimination never really dissapears it just gets new subjects added to it. Today its the infected, tommorow its us shifters, next week its the orcs then ?.

[Reaver]

Well, on the surface view, and to the non-genetic scientist, you are going to have a VERY hard time telling someone that Orks and Trolls are People.

People don't have tusks protruding from their lower jaw.
People don't stand 3 meters tall with enlongated arms and horns growing out of their head. Or have 40 teeth in their mouth.

I don't agree with you even there. You might be right if you said HUMANS don't have tusks and stand 3+ meters. But people can. Actually you have to be more precise: UNMODIFIED HUMANS. By your logic even transhumans wouldn't be people. Hell, not even a person with real world cybernetics as they exist in real-world 2016 would be considered people anymore by that logic. Actually that last bit kind of plays into cyberpunk again with losing your humanity and soul if you replace parts of yourself.

you have a little point on the human thing... but then lose it

A human that loses a hand and get a cybernetic one is still a person, they are just a person that lost a hand. There is no GENETIC difference in a person with 1 hand and a person with 2 hands. Even if he the hand he lost was by choice... (that just may mean he has mental-health issues).

The WHOLE point of transhumanism is to become MORE then human. If it happens to the entire race, then the bar just gets adjusted. If it happens to an individual, they COULD cease being people and become something else..... A human that has modified themselves to the point that they are a blob of goo with telekinetic abilities probably doesn't qualify as human anymore.... they are .... "Blob-ites"??

trans·hu·man·ism
/tranzˈhyo͞omənizm/
noun
noun: transhumanism
the belief or theory that the human race can evolve beyond its current physical and mental limitations, especially by means of science and technology

HMHVV overwrites the genetic code of it's host. This is a fact. It can been seen, measured, studied, and verified.

MY supposition is that during that genetic re-write, they cease to BE people and become.... something else.

Orks and Trolls are NOT infected by a virus. (that we know of!) They had those markers in their genetic structure for Orks and Trolls activated in their genome by the rising mana levels.

And it's interesting to note, some of what I say is used by Humanis to support their views that Orks and Trolls are not people either. But where Humanis fails is in the fact that Trolls and Orks CAN breed and even interbreed. Which means we must be very closely related for that to happen.

Humans and Chimps share 98% of the same DNA, but you don't see any "Chimpans" running about do you? But you do find inter-metahuman couples with children. *they just take after one or the other parent... (or a human)
But, you don't see and ghouls with kids (unless they infect the kids), or do you see Vampires with kids (again, unless they infected them).... Nor do you find any kids from a ghoul/metahuman coupling. Nor any kids from a Vampire/metahuman coupling. (and since Sex is mentioned as an easy way for vamps to establish the emotional connection for feeding, if it was possible, it would have happened!)

[Reaver]

I'm quite aware of the issues with slavery and women just making the point that at that time (and cultture) being a woman or being a black made you "not a person" and that attitude annoyingly still persists today such as getting the "let your husband deal with the car maintenance sweety" attitude of some repair shops.

> Most infected are sterile, so the only way for the infected to "reproduce" is to infect others.  THIS IS NOT NATURAL!

So are most mules.

So? Mules are the off spring of donkey and horses and are mostly a genetic dead-end...

> They can ONLY exist by consuming sapient food. They can't eat beef, or chicken, or pig....  again THIS IS NOT NATURAL!

Tree's can't eat beef, chicken or pig. Not saying they are sentient just pointing out not human species may have not human food sources that doesn't mean they aren't a people. What if hypothetically we encounter an alien species in real life that only exists by absorbing sunlight or eating arsenic would you define them as not human? What if you encounter a cannibal who will only eat people are they not a person? I'm not denying the later isn't a threat just saying it is still a person and if the person who choses to eat people is a person why isn't the being who HAS to? They may be a threat, they may be dangerous, they are a person.

Agrument invald. Trees are NOT people. Nor is an Alien! (hence the world: ALIEN!) A cannibal CAN still survive off any other food stuff, he just chooses not too. Don't confuse choice with necessity.

> Several infected can be sprayed with bullets, only to have the trauma heal up seconds later.... yet again THIS IS NOT NATURAL!

Up to 4th ed the same applied to shifters then they took our regeneration away (while leaving the references to it). Technically speaking a troll adept can also do the same thing high body so it survives spraying with bullets then the heal spell plus say the unnatural healing quality and it heals up. Not to mention all the paranormal critters which have it still.

And in 5e too now thanks to the errata. But  shifters are NOT people that turn into animals, they are ANIMALS that turn into people. Very big difference! No matter how much you love your housecat shifter, you will never have a fur-baby with it. Now, are they Sapient? Yes, but do not confuse Human level intelligence for being human. They are, always will be and always HAVE BEEN animals. End of story. (Run Faster, page 100, very first paragraph, very first sentence)

You keep saying "its not natural" but the simple fact is that infected are natural, its an awakened issue yes but they are the result of a virus that has been around for thousands of years not the result of genetic experimentation (aside from the Chupacabra). Nice or not it is natural and it may even have a very vital role in the ecology we aren't aware of. Wild theory maybe the infected are the planets way of trying to control metahumanity that is acting as an invasive species planetwide?

Ok, yes HMHVV seems to be a natural disease that has comeback with the rise in Mana, but are we SURE? (and leave ED out of this... not a fan of that retconn work) But lets look at this shall we. If it is an "Invasive Species" as you say, then as a species they are no longer metahuman, they are something else. Thus NOT people. And by the VERY fact they are invasive, they must be contained, controlled, and terminated for the natural species to survive. Thank you for making my argument for me!
Polo was natural, and we have done everything in our power to eliminate that disease. Small Pox was natural and we did eliminate that disease. Seems to me like HMHVV should be high on that list as well... and you can't eradicate an infectious disease while there are still carriers about... Start the fires now folks!

[/i]Again recognizing infected, shifters, orcs, technomancers, AI's as people with rights is NOT the same as saying a vampire has the right to feed on however they like. They are intelligent, they can reason, they can control their own urges, they may need to feed on sapient being but it doesn't have to be unwilling or even on something that isn't going to be lost anyway (my example of feeding on those who are about to get cyber/bioware that would cause the person to loose that essence anyway). I'm not arguing you don't contain, kill one who slaughters innocents for the fun of it, I am arguing that you do that by the law and under the same rules as everyone else i.e. innocent until proven guilty.

Again, just because something is sapient, doesn't mean it's metahuman, or a person. Technically AIs are "its" as they don't have a physical body. Without a physical body, they can't be people. But they are Sapient.
Again, Shifters are NOT  metahumans, they are really smart animals. Thus, not people, but Sapient. 
Yes, vampires are Sapient (never said they weren't), yes they can reason and rationalize. This is also what makes them such good predators. And the simple fact that they eat essence to live makes them parasites. Sapient, disease spreading parasites, sure. But parasites none the less. Meta-humanity works very, very hard at eradicating parasites everywhere else we find them, So why NOT vampires? oh right, feelings! Again, start the fires!

Still I think we're just going to go round and round in circles here as neither of us is likely to change our views. I just hope that you can recognize that the infected rights movement is quite a realistic phenomena given how many here would support it even if you personally view them as the Buffy style vampire i.e. the real person is dead and replaced by a virus puppet that should be burned.
For me any personal views aside I'd feel I HAVE to support the movement because while you personally draw the line at infected there are plenty of others out there who'd see me as an animal i.e. not having any human rights and probably should be chipped, collared and kept on a lead when out in public because I'm a vulpine shifter. There are others who would happily stone or kill me for being a mage. There are probably even more who feel as a woman I should not really be trying to do certain "mens jobs", intolerance and discrimination never really dissapears it just gets new subjects added to it. Today its the infected, tommorow its us shifters, next week its the orcs then ?.

Never said I was hoping to change your mind, or anyone else's mind. This isn't an issue were one side is right and the other wrong, this is a discussion of opposing points of views. I fully expect you to continue believing in what ever you wish to believe. I am merely laying out why many people DO NOT consider "Hug a Ghoul/Kiss a Vamp" bumper stickers to be valid. They are a threat, not just to metahumanity, but to the world. And as a threat they must be contained, controlled, and ultimately destroyed. (be that by a Cure that will never come, old age, or my favorite: FIRE!)
There are many movements out there and many of them are valid movements, I just don't consider the infected rights movement one of them. To me, that is like saying people with Ebola should be treated in malls, because they have a right to shop too!  NO! it's a lethal infectious disease!

Annnnnd once again.   as a shifter, YOU ARE NOT A METAHUMAN. you are a smart animal. End of story. Sorry the truth hurts, but its the truth. You may be a very smart animal and can think and reason and feel just as well as a metahuman, but that doesn't mean you are one. Sapient, yes. Metahuman (people) no.


Something can be sapient and not be human.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom#Sapience

Wisdom or sapience is the ability to think and act using knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense, and insight.[1] Wisdom has been regarded as one of four cardinal virtues; and as a virtue, it is a habit or disposition to perform the action with the highest degree of adequacy under any given circumstance with the limitation of error in any given action. This implies a possession of knowledge or the seeking of knowledge to apply to the given circumstance. This involves an understanding of people, objects, events, situations, and the willingness as well as the ability to apply perception, judgement, and action in keeping with the understanding of what is the optimal course of action. It often requires control of one's emotional reactions (the "passions") so that the universal principle of reason prevails to determine one's action. In short, wisdom is a disposition to find the truth coupled with an optimum judgement as to what actions should be taken.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines wisdom as "Capacity of judging rightly in matters relating to life and conduct; soundness of judgement in the choice of means and ends; sometimes, less strictly, sound sense, esp. in practical affairs: opp. to folly;" also "Knowledge (esp. of a high or abstruse kind); enlightenment, learning, erudition."[2] Charles Haddon Spurgeon defined wisdom as "the right use of knowledge".[3] Robert I. Sutton and Andrew Hargadon defined the "attitude of wisdom" as "acting with knowledge while doubting what one knows".[4]

Wisdom and knowledge have different meanings, but are often portrayed as synonyms. This is corrected by giving an example: it's wise to run a successful business because wisdom includes action. It's nothing more than smart to write a business plan proposing a successful business because knowledge is strictly cognitive. The difference in knowledge is knowing it; wisdom is doing it.[

I'm sorry, but your feelings don't matter.
Metahumans are people. Shifters are animals. AI's are constructs. Infected are monsters. But they are all sapient. 

It may make you feel better to treat AI, shifters, and the infect as people, but that doesn't make them people... Any more then a can of shoe polish applied to my face makes me an African.

[Novocrane]

> A team I know recently wound up in the Paris catacombs and stumbled upon a colony of grendels. Not only did they put up a hell of a fight, they had infants and small children. Either they’d Infected a couple of families wholesale, or they were breeding.
> Sticks

> We know bandersnatches breed, and there are confirmed sightings of fomóraig mating, though there haven’t been any confirmed offspring there. Rumors have abounded for years of loup-garou and their pups. Who’s to say whether or not Strain II victims are as sterile as we’ve been led to believe? Might have to look into a study on the subject.
> The Smiling Bandit

While most of the Infected are transformed later in life, the ghilani retroviruses can and do pass into the germ line, which means that the children of the Infected can be born with the Infected quality. Such “native” Infected characters are no different mechanically from any other Infected characters. They simply grow up afflicted by their condition.
Only bandersnatchii, fomóraig, ghouls, and loup-garou can reproduce in this manner—banshees, dzoo-noo-qua, goblins, nosferatu, vampires, and wendigo pass the virus along in the germ line, and the fetus fails to develop properly.

(trimmed the bit about infertile Infected, as that's apparently bothered the 5e writer)

[Reaver]

Like I said, some are sterile. (Just not entirely sure which ones in 5e.)

And some can seem to reproduce (I remember the Grendel story... but even that is unclear).

Which, should scare the heck out of people!

Because if they CAN breed, then you are not longer looking at a less then 1:1 transformation... (sometimes the virus just kills you, and doesn't infect/turn you). You could suddenly end up with an entire nest of these blood, flesh and bone eaters out of just a mated couple. How long is their life cycle? How dies it take to becone large and competant enough to attack and feed on people??? For that matter, how long is the pregnacy cycle? 9 months like humans? 16 weeks like orks? Is it a single birth or a pair or an entire litter???

We just don't know.  But its just more reason for a bigger bonfire in my eyes!

[RowanTheFox]

For that matter, how long is the pregnacy cycle? 9 months like humans? 16 weeks like orks? Is it a single birth or a pair or an entire litter???

Is there a place where the reproductive cycles of the various metatypes are listed?

[Reaver]

For that matter, how long is the pregnacy cycle? 9 months like humans? 16 weeks like orks? Is it a single birth or a pair or an entire litter???

Is there a place where the reproductive cycles of the various metatypes are listed?

The only one that has been noted as being different then humans are Orks.

Orks reach maturity by age 13, their reproductive cycle is 16 weeks long, and they give birth to litters of 4 to 8 (down from 12 in 1e).

6WA has a blurb on them, as well as several other books. (But to my knowledge not yet in 5e)

So you can see my concern, IF they reproduce as fast as Orks, in a single year, a mated couple of infected could have as many 24 offspring! That's a lot of essence/flesh to keep that family going!

<but, there has not been much stated on if they can reproduce since the change to 5e. And with the noted change to infected in Storm Front, I am waiting to see if it gets any mention in future books.... but I doubt it will.>

Sadly, I am not sure what books novocrane is quoting from, as he didn't list them.

[Senko]

And I am laying out why many do consider those bumper stickers and movements to be valid. Still if your happy to continue debating onwards just be sure to let me know when you want to let it drop rather than just putting me on ignore.

So with strain II it sems you've lost the sterile and can't breed argument.

My point was alien, shifter, AI or infected while they are not HUMAN they are PEOPLE. Furry people, blobby people, digital people, humanovore people, whatever they are they are PEOPLE. Shifters can breed with other shifters, can eat non sentient food, can reason or think in some cases better than humans they are people not human but from where I stand people. I have never claimed them to be human in fact my shifters have all found the idea of having sex with one to be rather abhorrent but that doesn't mean they are not and I emphasize this again PEOPLE.

I used invasive to describe metahumanity (elves, dwarves, HUMANS) and that the infected are natures way of trying to combat them. Infected in my example were the natural biological (or ecological) response to try and eradicate the disease of metahumanity.

The argument I and I suspect others in this thread are holding too is that sentient DOES mean people, it may or may not mean human depending on which species your talking about but it does definately mean people. Otherwise yegods the slippery slope your diving down "Infectted aren't people, AI's aren't people, shifters aren't people, orcs aren't people sure they can talk and may seem to be as intelligent as us but they're not people look when I beat it up it loses count of how many times I hit it."

That I think is the core of the argument here. To you people = human or human variant anything outside that is not a people. Alien = not people, sasquatch = not people, shifter = not people, AI = not people and thus they have no rights you can do whatever you want to it without repurcsusions.
To many of us on the other side however people = sentient and has nothing to do with metahumanity. If the being is sentient its a people we may have different bodily states, different diets, different viewpoints it doesn't matter we are all PEOPLE because to us people and human are not the same thing.
I have never argued I am human, I have argued that I'm a people I can reason, I can vote, I can like or hate, I can create, I should have the exact same rights, protections and responsiblities as any other PERSON whether they be a human, an elf, an AI, an infected, a dragon.
Hmmm yesssss go up to a dragon and tell it that its not a person and that your here to pick up some of the gold and precious items since they don't belong to anyone see how far that gets you. You may cling to the dictionary defination that defines people as human (I'm sure humanis clubs do) but that's produced for a world that only has humans as a sentient race I expect that would change in a world that has other races capable of proving their sentience.