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FST_Gemstar

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« Reply #285 on: <01-14-16/1358:37> »
I agree. I have no expectation that my shadowrun character should be fleshed out and "alive" the way a real person would be. Movie character makes more sense - ranging from cartoonish action to intricately planned heist to epic fantasy to dark cyberpunk to buddy comedy to thriller/horror and more. Characters going to be engaged in an awesome setting where these tropes can really be played with.

celondon

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« Reply #286 on: <01-14-16/1529:23> »
Sacrificing a plethora of thematic elements in favor of raw power does infringe upon roleplaying. Roleplaying a guy who can do nothing but try to kill people is a very shallow concept. Not only is it shallow, it's pretty damn basic and many would say, boring. You can come up with any wacky backstory to explain how he is how he is but the character isn't going to be as interesting as he could be. Take the same guy, a complete monster in combat but he also has a deep interest in goblin rock and knows how to  perform classical jazz and ballet, he suddenly has a lot more depth. By refusing to even consider such options you are hurting your potential as a roleplayer.

See Jayne

Shallow merc gun nut with few other skills or redeeming qualities? Yet, at the same time a fun and fascinating character.

"I'll be in my bunk."
« Last Edit: <01-14-16/1536:18> by celondon »
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #287 on: <01-14-16/1530:42> »
Sacrificing a plethora of thematic elements in favor of raw power does infringe upon roleplaying. Roleplaying a guy who can do nothing but try to kill people is a very shallow concept. Not only is it shallow, it's pretty damn basic and many would say, boring. You can come up with any wacky backstory to explain how he is how he is but the character isn't going to be as interesting as he could be. Take the same guy, a complete monster in combat but he also has a deep interest in goblin rock and knows how to  perform classical jazz and ballet, he suddenly has a lot more depth. By refusing to even consider such options you are hurting your potential as a roleplayer.

See Jayne

Shallow merc gun nut with few other skills or redeeming qualities? Yet, at the same time a fun and fascinating character.

"I'll be in my bunk."

Perfect example disproving his premise.
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falar

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« Reply #288 on: <01-14-16/1635:13> »
To me runners are Larger then Life, Heroes in dark days, facing overwhelming odds. But sticking to their Code. Compromising and forcing compromise where they can for the greater good of all people.
... Wait. Shadowrunners are heroes? I always operated under the assumption that they were slightly different shades of grey in a world made of greys where there are no heroes and no villians. If anything, they tend towards amoral villians.

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #289 on: <01-14-16/1643:04> »
The classical definition of hero, rather than the modern definition, is apt.

Even with the modern definitions you have anti heroes sticking it to The Man as best they can.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Sendaz

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« Reply #290 on: <01-14-16/1649:15> »
To me runners are Larger then Life, Heroes in dark days, facing overwhelming odds. But sticking to their Code. Compromising and forcing compromise where they can for the greater good of all people.
... Wait. Shadowrunners are heroes? I always operated under the assumption that they were slightly different shades of grey in a world made of greys where there are no heroes and no villians. If anything, they tend towards amoral villians.
Depends on the runner and campaign along with your point of view.

Someone sticking it to the Man by doing runs against unscrupulous corps will certainly be seen in a better light by some than another guy who takes any job, regardless the nature, solely for the paycheck.  But both exist and are perfectly feasible to play.



 
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Marcus

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« Reply #291 on: <01-14-16/1813:45> »
To me runners are Larger then Life, Heroes in dark days, facing overwhelming odds. But sticking to their Code. Compromising and forcing compromise where they can for the greater good of all people.
... Wait. Shadowrunners are heroes? I always operated under the assumption that they were slightly different shades of grey in a world made of greys where there are no heroes and no villians. If anything, they tend towards amoral villians.

It's personal preference, but I don't play games to be the villain.

It's really a question you have to answer for yourself.
« Last Edit: <01-14-16/1838:56> by Marcus »
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ZombieAcePilot

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« Reply #292 on: <01-14-16/2113:15> »
Sacrificing a plethora of thematic elements in favor of raw power does infringe upon roleplaying. Roleplaying a guy who can do nothing but try to kill people is a very shallow concept. Not only is it shallow, it's pretty damn basic and many would say, boring. You can come up with any wacky backstory to explain how he is how he is but the character isn't going to be as interesting as he could be. Take the same guy, a complete monster in combat but he also has a deep interest in goblin rock and knows how to  perform classical jazz and ballet, he suddenly has a lot more depth. By refusing to even consider such options you are hurting your potential as a roleplayer.

See Jayne

Shallow merc gun nut with few other skills or redeeming qualities? Yet, at the same time a fun and fascinating character.

"I'll be in my bunk."

Perfect example disproving his premise.

Uhhh.. no? Jayne could play the guitar, had a family he cared about, etc. Seems like there is some depth there. Also, we only saw him for a single season/movie. Not the most time ever for character development.

We also don't see what thematic elements were sacrificed. We also know Jayne does more than try to kill people. By these loose definitions we could probably condemn every hero from a western.
« Last Edit: <01-14-16/2116:19> by ZombieAcePilot »

Glyph

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« Reply #293 on: <01-14-16/2226:35> »
The guy with skills: E who can only kill people is only one of many ways to optimize.  There are combat mages, private investigators, underground reporters, eco-activists, burned-out company men, ex-pit fighters, and a lot more.  If your main (but not only) concern is optimization, there as still so, so many ways to do it.

But even the guy skills: E who spends most of his points on combat skills is neither unrealistic, nor does it have to be a shallow concept.  It's not unrealistic, because the world of Shadowrun has plenty of thugs, legbreakers, and muscle, and despite their numbers they are always in demand.  It doesn't have to be a shallow concept, because you can take the concept in many different directions.  You can angst about only being good at inflicting violence, you can embrace your inner monster, you can sink into sullen apathy, you can become paranoid, you can become overconfident - and you can grow and evolve into other roles over time.

And if you like roleplaying characters who fail - why, such a character opens up a world of failure for you!  A character hyper-focused on combat can fail at everything else!  He can struggle with the adware infesting his cheap commlink ("I don't even like troll-on-elf porn!  I only clicked on that one link because I was, um, curious.").  He can hang his head like a chastened schoolboy when the face has to take him by the hand, and do a bit of fast-talking, to get him into the club past the smirking bouncer who stopped him at the door.  He can kick an empty bottle down the hall with a clatter when he is trying to be sneaky, making the cat burglar wheel around and glare at him.  He can overpay his fixer to get a gun that is more or less like the one he had before, just with more bells and whistles ("But, but... it's 'The Razorboy's Ride-Along', dude!").  He can pine over the hot elf he is too intimidated to even approach.  The possibilities are endless!

celondon

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« Reply #294 on: <01-14-16/2233:18> »
Uhhh.. no? Jayne could play the guitar, had a family he cared about, etc. Seems like there is some depth there. Also, we only saw him for a single season/movie. Not the most time ever for character development.

We also don't see what thematic elements were sacrificed. We also know Jayne does more than try to kill people. By these loose definitions we could probably condemn every hero from a western.

That's pretty much my point. On the surface, he was a murder-hobo, but his knowledge skills, negative qualities and background pretty much give him depth and "character."
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FST_Gemstar

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« Reply #295 on: <01-14-16/2345:59> »



Ace is a combat-focused character who plays the violin that definitely gives up utility for the violin. While his violin is good, it doesn't make him a better character, just one with a thing he does (play the violin). Spoiler: He does survive though.     ;)

I don't want to pile on, I just got reminded of this tonight though. Let's just do our best think of cool characters and play them out the best we can. And let's not forget sometimes character comes out in the play. We learn more about our characters after they are created due to their interaction with other PCs and the world. They can surprise us even after the sheet is finished, and it's for the good!



« Last Edit: <01-14-16/2347:51> by FST_Gemstar »

Jayde Moon

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« Reply #296 on: <01-15-16/0145:33> »
As long as we're doing pictures:



This guy optimized his Throwing (Knife) skill at the cost of everything else.  Best character ever.
That's just like... your opinion, man.

Strange

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« Reply #297 on: <01-15-16/0316:09> »
As long as we're doing pictures:



This guy optimized his Throwing (Knife) skill at the cost of everything else.  Best character ever.

"It's all in the reflexes."  9/10 shadowrunners agree.

Marcus

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« Reply #298 on: <01-15-16/0323:56> »
Love it.
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Reaver

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« Reply #299 on: <01-15-16/0752:42> »
As long as we're doing pictures:



This guy optimized his Throwing (Knife) skill at the cost of everything else.  Best character ever.

And yet he misses 7/8 throws.....
(But does make the only that really matters)
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