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Armor and clothing as One-size fits all?

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fr2itus

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« on: <02-06-16/1152:50> »
Not including the obvious dwarf and troll restrictions, does SR5 allow:

-armor/clothing to be one-size fits all?
or
-does it need to be custom fit?

As a GM would you allow PC to remove an enemies clothes/armor and just upgrade on the spot or require them to tailor the outfit or impose a penalty?

MijRai

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« Reply #1 on: <02-06-16/1159:23> »
There's rules in Run & Gun for this, actually.  There's specific gear with Custom Fit, and the effects of it not being cut for you.   
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

fr2itus

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« Reply #2 on: <02-06-16/1218:16> »
Thank for the heads up. I'll have to buy R&G to find out then.

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #3 on: <02-06-16/1232:10> »
Most Geer is treated as one size fits all because doing otherwise is valueless granularity. The exception is listed above.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Rift_0f_Bladz

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« Reply #4 on: <02-06-16/1928:31> »
What Whiskey said, hince part of why I don't like SR4a 2050 Dikote rules (using cm2* x amount in ¥).
Quote- Mirikon on 7/30/2019 at 08:26:51
Agreed. This looks like a 'training wheels' edition, that you can use to introduce someone to the setting, and then shift over to something like 5E or 4E. Like how D&D 5E is best used as training wheels for D&D 3.X.

Turned in Toxshaman for ¥1 million/4 once.

Pap Renvela

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« Reply #5 on: <02-07-16/0733:36> »
Ritz-if you're going to complain about the same thing in different posts of different threads you can at least have the decency to follow suit and do what the rest of us do....complain about errata.

:)

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #6 on: <02-07-16/0740:15> »
House rule territory; I would consider any player who had a Low lifestyle or better to have tailoring/fitting services included in their lifestyle costs. If you're living on the street or squatting somewhere; sorry chummer, pay up.

But that's just because I like rewarding players who spend hard-earned nuyen on lifestyles, which doesn't have a lot of mechanics associated with them. I also use the optional lifestyle environmental damage rules from Run Faster to further emphasize this point.

witchdoctor

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« Reply #7 on: <02-07-16/2308:37> »
Keep in mind that, if I recall correctly, that the SR5 does cover this for trolls stating that their increased lifestyle costs reflects the price of having to pay extra to have everything fitted to their larger frames. I would assume something similar if not identical for other metatypes.

Malevolence

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« Reply #8 on: <02-08-16/0422:39> »
I'd say no, just by common sense, though by RAW it seems to be one size fits all. Custom fit is basically like custom tailored clothes of today - they start at a common size and then are adjusted to fit perfectly (or may be commissioned to be built to specific measurements). This is reflected in R&G like MijRal says - the penalty for wearing it is that you lose the Social bonuses normally conferred because those it is meant to impress are not impressed by your poorly tailored gear (or your being "short for a Stormtrooper" in the case of intimidation bonuses).


All other gear (including Custom Fit) has a size just like anything you would buy off the shelf. If it is within a size or so of yours, then you can wear it "right off the body", so to speak, though if it isn't your exact size, there should be a penalty (that is, of course, a house rule since the books do not mention it). Again, this is potentially needless book-keeping, so you are free to handwave it as a GM (same Stormtrooper reference - the trope where any character in a movie or TV show just happens to fit into the clothing of the guards they knocked out).


Or you can just do a random roll on the spot to see what size it is, say 2d6. A 6-8 means it is average for that metatype (or the same size as the character unless the character has specifically described himself as larger or smaller than "normal"), with each point off from 6-8 being one size too large or small. If it is one size too big/small, you suffer a -1 to Agi. If it is 2 sizes too big, you suffer -1 to Agi and Rea, increasing by 1 for each size. If it is two sizes too small, you suffer -2 to Agi and Rea, and you cannot fit into anything 3+ sizes too small. This gives a good chance (almost 50%) that "normal" sized characters can loot gear without penalty. If you want looting to be more difficult, then require a roll of 7 for "average" sized gear. Following on, for a nominal cost (this should not be a normal lifestyle expense as one usually buys clothes in their size and does not subsequently pay to have the fitted unless they are at least High lifestyle) they can have the items increased one size or decreased two sizes. I'm not a tailor, so maybe there is more leeway in fitting clothing, but since this is likely to be armor clothing, I feel justified in taking the conservative route.


Again, all house rule - by the book, it really seems to be one size fits all so long as you are the same meta-type, other than custom fit. Even though Orks don't pay a premium (they simply wear large clothes, but not abnormally so), I think I'd still say that an Ork couldn't wear clothing looted from a human or elf (and vice versa), though humans and elves are largely similarly sized so I'd allow them to share.


So, neither option above requires additional book-keeping since the roll can be done at the time of looting, though if it doesn't fit then it can require additional book-keeping if the character chooses to take the stat hit to wear it, but only short term and only if the gear is looted (you don't have to choose a size in advance when generating mooks). But, the additional complexity is on the player, not the GM.
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Senko

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« Reply #9 on: <02-20-16/0829:57> »
House rule territory; I would consider any player who had a Low lifestyle or better to have tailoring/fitting services included in their lifestyle costs. If you're living on the street or squatting somewhere; sorry chummer, pay up.

But that's just because I like rewarding players who spend hard-earned nuyen on lifestyles, which doesn't have a lot of mechanics associated with them. I also use the optional lifestyle environmental damage rules from Run Faster to further emphasize this point.

I could sort of see it for medium and definatey high  and luxury lifestyles but I have trouble seeing custom fit clothing as part of a low lifestyle myself. To me with low the money for good clothing isn't there a lot of the time much less for clothing hand tailored to fit your body. This isn't to say a runner can't have it just that they'd need to pay for it seperately rather than it being bundled in. For me a low lifestyle you'll have one good suit for interviews or formal occasions but it'd be bought off the shelf as a best fit you can get and not the height of fasion just a standard black jacket and pants/skirt with white shirt. At medium I'd give them a suit/dress that's nice clothing for special occasions as part of the standard lifestyle cost because you have the disposable income your good clothes have gone to a tailor to be fitted properly or to buy that rare high brand name outfit even if you can't pay for one of a kind stuff. At high and above anything you wear is more likely to be custom made for you rather than off the rack and you'd be likely to have a few that aren't made as part of a line. That is you show up in a Gaducci Suit which was made just for you and is of a shade designed to make your skin/hair look fabulous rather than just black/gray/white. This is of course purely personal opinion but I do agree even the basic lifestyle rules can be used to good effect.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #10 on: <02-20-16/0904:09> »
Agreed on low lifestyles not having access to the latest haute couture outfits, but I think there is a big difference between having a personal tailor who custom makes your outfits by hand and a tailor/fitter/cleaner service that will do alterations. To my mind, the latter is within reach of even a Low lifestyle, and could be used to avoid book keeping costs of having clothing made to fit your character better.

Senko

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« Reply #11 on: <02-20-16/1922:32> »
Sorry if I wasn't clear it was late when I posted. I wasn't saying it was out of their price range just that at the low lifestyle most people would have more important things to spend the money on (food, shelter) which is why any custom tailored outfits would need to be a deliberate purchase by the player rather than coming as part of the lifestyle by default. That is while someone earning 24 thousand yen after taxes could scrape together the money to get a suit altered to fit its not something that all or even most of them would bother with when they have to cover rent, food, clothing for the weather and so on. Having a suit of some kind of formal occasions sure but spending the money to make it fit a little better why would they bother? At medium you have enough free cash that those little touches are something you start thinking about. To put it another way if you were a uni student working part time, paying for rent, food, text books would you spend 50-60 dollars to get a suit altered so the legs are a little shorter, the sleeves a little longer and the wait a little smaller or would you just make do because that same 50 dollars is food for several days or a chunk of your weekly rent?

bangbangtequila

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« Reply #12 on: <02-27-16/1732:35> »
I always view Low as including three ish suits, the black one you wear to a funeral, the grey one you wore to every job interview you've had since you were 20, and the blue one you bought after you came into a little extra money and wore to your sister's wedding. None are tailored, they aren't expensive, but they fit well enough. Medium means you could wear the sort of suits that software designers in 90's movies wear every day to work, and you might have one or two nice suits - not the 10 000$ ones the bigwigs wear nice, but noticeably nicer then some wageslave's daily attire and they all fit well - maybe one of the real nice ones is tailored. High gets to assume you have a few of the latest and greatest coming from mortimer of london and Zoe in their closet, and update them every season (every 3-4 months, but this also assumes you only have one or two left from last season as you update, you don't get a stockpile). Luxury involves having hand-tailored clothes to your up-to-date measurements dropped off with your butler every month, and you can assume you have whatever your taste may be in the closet.

This is just based on my personal experience in the real world. The books leave lifestyle clothing vague, as far as I know, so salt to taste

Cash

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« Reply #13 on: <02-27-16/1944:20> »
No. No, it's not one size fits all. It's your character buys whatever size fits him because it's made in all manner of sizes. Previously mentioned exceptions obviously apply, such as the Custom Fit modification from R&G.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #14 on: <02-27-16/2111:31> »
Cash
The OP did ask about removing clothing from an opponent as well:
As a GM would you allow PC to remove an enemies clothes/armor and just upgrade on the spot or require them to tailor the outfit or impose a penalty?