[farfromnice]

So my mage/shaman are ALWAYS using an Invisibility spell and a Concealement power from a Spirit to go in a Run.

So i'm searching a way to see threw this stratageme

Please Help Me, you Shadowrun Great Hive Mind

[Herr Brackhaus]

A good counter to Invisibility alone is a simple dog. Anything with a strong sense of smell and/or hearing, really.

Of course, your player is being smart and using Concealment in addition. Because this power works against "any Perception test" to locate the concealed subject", the only real counter to this is astral surveillance.

Remember, Invisibility and Concealment only work on the Physical plane. Invisibility only makes your physical form invisible, even though it's a Mana spell. Concealment is a Physical critter power, meaning it cannot have an effect on the Astral. Furthermore, since the subject has a sustained spell, he'll stand out in the Astral more than a mundane person (which has an aura, but not as strong of one as an Awakened person or critter or that of a spell).

So, a couple watcher spirits or a wage mage should do the trick.

[adzling]

Anyone can hear things, even a regular guard (so you should be making sneak tests for that shaman to make sure he doesn't make noise while walking around).

Yup, good old fashioned dog would work.
A hellhound (who can smell AND see on the astral) is better.

Anything with astral sight will ignore the invisibility and concealment (mage, ghoul, hellhound and other paracritters, spirits etc).

On the technology side pressure plates, laser beams (maybe), trip wires and ultrasound sensors are good options that would not be affected by those spells.

[farfromnice]

I use AstralWall to because the spirit sustaining this power and the mage have to break it when they pass threw (I'm really not sure I'm not using the good verb here) with a sustain spell/power

but I'm getting tired of always using this ... Maybe other ideas ?

Anything with astral sight will ignore the invisibility and concealment (mage, ghoul, hellhound and other paracritters, spirits etc).

On the technology side pressure plates, laser beams (maybe), trip wires and ultrasound sensors are good options that would not be affected by those spells.

Yeup ! I was thinking more in that way

[Beta]

Invisibility should work fine on laser beams (well, depending on how you rule invisibility vs thermographic vision, I think most people say that it works fine versus infra-red).

I also have a shaman in my game who enjoys invisibility and spirit concealment (and silence, too).  My list of challenges include:

-   Concealment isn’t so useful if you aren’t being stealthy.  All uses of sneak are going to slow you down, and the more sense you are trying to avoid the slower you will tend to be.  In particular, if you are trying to sneak through ultrasound you are going very slowly.  If they can detect ultrasound they’ll know when they need to do this and when not to, but motion detectors are one of the easiest forms of security so should be quite common.

-   Locked doors.  Sure maybe the group can open them, but they can’t easily conceal that they are opening them (i.e. they’d need to hack the cameras that have view of the door and loop them, and if any guards have line of sight on the door then it is even harder)
-   
-   Wards/mana barriers.  In my view of things, companies will put wards around all their external entrances, and all higher security areas of the company (i.e. where the runners are apt to want to go – including computer centres, executive offices, and guard rooms.  Sometimes to be cheaper they may only put a thin ward around the wall where the doors are (you have to sleaze through both sides of the barrier to get your spirits and spells through, so two chances to mess up).

-   Guards with good perception skills and decent attributes can work wonders.  (or security spiders with high electronic warfare).  On top of all the buff young guards you could have one older guy with higher willpower, logic, and intuition and some upgrades, who is rolling 9-10 dice to resist illusions and possibly up around 14 on perception tests.

-   Regular patrols by watcher spirits.  They can’t cover everything, but if you are moving slowly (see the stealth discussion above) then the odds are good that they will spot you eventually.

-   In certain areas: background count
-   Awakened guards.  Sure mages are really valuable, but a substantial portion of all awakened are pretty weak.  If you have magic =2 and are an aspected summoner, your most valuable skill may simply be astral perception.  Not something that will be believable at Stuffer Shack, but at higher security sites it isn’t out of the question.

-   For really high security/fiendish location, a security mage sitting at nexus of fibre-optic lines with wide angle lenses at the other end, so that they can target spells at many places in the facility, while sitting back in the safety of the security offices.  This doesn’t help with detecting the party in the first place, but it may allow the security mage to dispel the invisibility at just the right (or wrong, from the runner’s perspective) time.

[adzling]

There's also an awakened moss that glows in the presence of astral/ awakened people IIRC.

[Mirikon]

Ah, the old question of what to do with invisible characters. Here's a short list of possible ways to deal with them:

- Wards. Active spells and spirits got to go away, or set off the ward.
- AOE. Don't care how invisible you are, a fireball in your general area is going to mess you up.
- Nonvisual senses. Pressure plates, ultrasound, and more. Preferably attached to traps or alarms (depending on how mean you're feeling).
- Sauce for the gander. Darkness spells, smoke grenades, and more all allow for EVERYONE to be on the same level.
- Doors with cameras and alarms on them, or with guards watching from the other side. Yes, no one sees you. They do, however, see a door opening with no one standing there, which causes problems.
- Critters. Dogs and other critters can track by scent.
- Astral sight. Whether with spirits, mages, or lucifer lamps, bringing the astral into view is going to make the invisible character light up like a Christmas tree.

Honestly, give me some time and the specifics of the run, and I could come up with an easy dozen ways to do it.

[farfromnice]

all good advice, thak you all

Magic is not my forte at Shadowrun, you help a  lot

[Mirikon]

In general, the means to deal with invisible characters is the same, whether you are in Shadowrun, D&D, or some other system. Even if they have perfect invisibility to all senses, even (somehow) astral sight, they still have to open doors, walk across rooms, and so on.

[Tinkerbell]

When they have a comlink or some other wifi-device a decker or rigger could locate them by hacking them and putting an ARO pointing at this device. (I am not sure about this)
You could also use Target Device (Rigger 5, page 30) to locate the device.

When they are outside: Let it rain. This will make them a little more visible, I guess. Inside the same effect could occur by a sprinkler system. Smoke would give an invisible man an silhouette too.
Mud or raked sand/earth will show their footprints. Indoors - maybee someone shoot some paint buckets or even some styrofoam  on the gound could be a challenge for them?

When the enemy knows they are there, they could use supressive fire to hit them.

What happens to an invisible guy when he is hit by a paintball? Would this make him visible or would the color be affected by the invisibility spell?

Invisibility does not help against traps. Maybe the local gang has placed some booby traps at the backdoor of their hideout.

Old doors creak when you open them. Old floors are making sounds.

As mentioned before:
For company sites:
Using (astral) critters as part of the security concept is also a very common thing in 2070.
Guards might use gas or stun grenades when they cant see someone. I guess in high security facilitys the guards might be trained how to react to invisible intruders.
When I were a guard I would try to lock the invisible guys in a room or building, call some kind of magical reinforcements. (Police, magical swat, or something). I would try not to get to close or in sight of the mages - because I know that they are very dangerous (from TV or because of my training). When I couldn't lock the mages down, I would try to lock myself in some secure room and wait for the reinforcements. Maybe there is some kind of emergency plan in some facilitys which floods the whole facility with neuro stun gas.
But I guess the problem is that the guards don't see them coming before they die. But even this could be noticed by other guards. Maybe there is central security room which is locked. Maybe even a security rigger.
They would need good decking support  to be undetected, because the cameras can still see when doors are opened / the security rigger could even feel it.

[Kamikazzijoe]

Put up a decent astral barrier and they won't all be able to get through it.