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Who can do what when astrally?

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odd

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« on: <02-14-16/1906:36> »
I have a few questions I don't know the answer to:
What can someone astrally projecting do to:
A mundane
An awakened, non-perceiving/project person
An astrally perceiving awakened
Dual Natured being

I think the answers are:
A mundane - Nothing
An awakened, non-perceiving/project person - Nothing
An astrally perceiving awakened - Mana based spells (and they could do them back)
Dual Natured being - Mana based spells (and they could do them back)

But I'm not positive and don't have referencs.  I've searched before, but didn't have any luck.

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #1 on: <02-14-16/1915:38> »
You're correct on all counts.

However, if you're projecting, you still see the auras of living things around you, Awakened or not, and can use Assensing to read these auras for information. I believe you can also eavesdrop and hear the emotional content of a conversation (hearing the actual words would be fairly broken).

You can also attack activated foci with spells on the astral, as they're dual-natured when turned on; doing so ends up turning them off.
Playability > verisimilitude.

odd

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« Reply #2 on: <02-14-16/1927:58> »
Sweet, thanks whiskey (for this and all the other newbie help). Is there a spot that spells it out?  I'll add to wiki.

Follow up question, to hit the foci, would it need to be a physical damaging spell?

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #3 on: <02-14-16/1940:52> »
Sweet, thanks whiskey (for this and all the other newbie help). Is there a spot that spells it out?  I'll add to wiki.
Let me go look for a cite.

Follow up question, to hit the foci, would it need to be a physical damaging spell?
No, Stunbolt/Manabolt would do
Playability > verisimilitude.

Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #4 on: <02-14-16/2038:42> »
You're correct on all counts.

However, if you're projecting, you still see the auras of living things around you, Awakened or not, and can use Assensing to read these auras for information. I believe you can also eavesdrop and hear the emotional content of a conversation (hearing the actual words would be fairly broken).

You can also attack activated foci with spells on the astral, as they're dual-natured when turned on; doing so ends up turning them off.
Do you have a source for "damaging a Foci's Astral Form turns it off"? Cus otherwise the only way that works RAW is via Counterspell. You deactivate the Focus, which causes the Astral Form to disappear back into the item, and the Mage has to return to their body to reactivate it.

Also, I don't think you can overhear a conversation. The most you're going to get out of spying on people is their emotional state via their aura color.

For OP, the books outright say what happens on the Astral, stays on the Astral. You cannot interact with the physical world in any way. You cannot interact with mundane folks, nor with Awakened who are not at least Perceiving. If they are Perceiving, they gain an Astral Form but it's directly tied to their Physical Form. Which some GMs may let you cinematically damage and manipulate like typical ghost movies where someone develops claw marks before being dragged up the wall and pinned to the ceiling.

And unless Whiskey has a source on that damage stuff, the easiest way to disarm someone wielding a Focus is rolling Counterspell to turn it off. Older editions used to allow people to target the Astral Form of the Focus, and have the damage carry across to the other side. So someone could be wandering with an active amulet or something, and suddenly get hit by a Manabolt out of nowhere. But SR5 doesn't do that anymore.
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Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #5 on: <02-14-16/2123:22> »
And unless Whiskey has a source on that damage stuff, the easiest way to disarm someone wielding a Focus is rolling Counterspell to turn it off. Older editions used to allow people to target the Astral Form of the Focus, and have the damage carry across to the other side. So someone could be wandering with an active amulet or something, and suddenly get hit by a Manabolt out of nowhere. But SR5 doesn't do that anymore.
I could be reading in old mechanics, yeah.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Reaver

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« Reply #6 on: <02-14-16/2125:30> »
AFB: The foci bit is under the artificing chapter of the CRB, and goes into how an astral attack shuts down a foci.

When observing the physical from the astral, all that ever crosses over the 'viel' is the emotional content. Thus observing a conversation from the astral between a man and woman: you could tell that they are pissed, and may know it has something to do with sex.... but the fact that the woman was cheating, wouldn't be clear....
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Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #7 on: <02-14-16/2233:16> »
AFB: The foci bit is under the artificing chapter of the CRB, and goes into how an astral attack shuts down a foci.
Page and quote? Cus all I'm seeing is that if you Project with an active Focus, and you take enough damage to get knocked unconscious, then the Focus will deactivate and the Astral Form will disappear. I'm still not seeing anything that expressly says "If you deal X damage to the Focus, it will deactivate."
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Mirikon

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« Reply #8 on: <02-15-16/0005:49> »
Quick addendum: the OP is correct on all counts, provided normal conditions. However, there are places known as Astral Shallows, in which there really isn't any veil between the physical and the astral. Even mundanes can see astral forms and auras in those places. The Wuxing Skytower in Hong Kong has the largest and most stable known astral shallow in existence, IIRC.
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Strange

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« Reply #9 on: <02-15-16/1629:32> »
Can't a dual-natured creature also physically attack purely Astral creatures (even astral projecting), using Astral combat? (forget for the moment about Astral movement and the ludicrousness  of the skill)

Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #10 on: <02-15-16/1738:46> »
Can't a dual-natured creature also physically attack purely Astral creatures (even astral projecting), using Astral combat? (forget for the moment about Astral movement and the ludicrousness  of the skill)

Core pg 315, Astral Combat
Quote
Astrally perceiving and dual-natured characters use their physical attributes and skills to fight opponents with a physical body, and their Astral Combat + Willpower to fight wholly astral entities.
Yes, you can go hand to hand with an unmanifested Spirit. Provided it stays within melee range. As soon as it flies away (which is very easy to do since there is no Astral gravity) then they will be out of reach unless you can physically fly after them somehow.
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KarmaInferno

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« Reply #11 on: <02-16-16/0127:43> »
You can manifest and moon people.

Depending on the person this may lead to mental scarring and possible sanity checks.



-k

Sendaz

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« Reply #12 on: <02-16-16/0605:16> »
Worst case of Asstral Projection ever. :P
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odd

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« Reply #13 on: <02-16-16/0627:26> »
Can a manifesting person cast spells at meat space?

Sendaz

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« Reply #14 on: <02-16-16/0641:40> »
Can a manifesting person cast spells at meat space?
No, you are still on the astral and restricted to astral actions.  You are basically just a psychic image there.

Back in the old days there was a thing called grounding whereby a projecting mage could drop physical spells down a foci or even a projecting body and have them go off in meat space, but that has been long since removed.


Good times though....
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