[Tarislar]

I was playing with modules after picking up Run Faster recently  (Late, I know)  Trying to create some past characters & looking at the various paths.
Anyway, I went off on a tangent & created a character type that I can safely say, I would have NEVER have considered making under any other method.

I give you, the Decker/Face.   The classes every group needs but often the least fun in combat. 
And this guy is probably the worst combatant I've ever made.

I'm not 100% sure its legal, I've read on the boards about how Qualities wasn't clear, and after reading the section, I understand why.
I "think" I've done it according to the way it is in the book.  As I understand it, you can't  get rid of positives, but, you Can buy off Negatives.
You can't have more than 25 Negatives in Points, but CAN end up with more than 25 Positives because you can't remove the module ones.


Anyway, here he is. 


Metatype = Elf                                   Age = 37

Attributes:
Body-3
Agility-2
Reaction-1
Strength-1
Willpower-5
Logic-5
Intuition-4
Charisma-8
Edge-2
Essence-6
Initiative-5+1D


Active Skills:
Group/Cracking - 7
Group/Electronics - 7
Chemistry - 1
Con - 4
Escape Artist - 1
Etiquette - 7
Forgery - 4
Instruction - 2
Navigation - 1
Negotiation - 2
Perception - 7
Pistol - 1
Survival - 1


Language/Knowledge Skills:  (Incomplete)
Sperethiel - Native
English - 4
(Language Pending) - 4
History - 1
(Tir Corp) - 3
Matrix Design - 8
Academic-ANY-4
Academic-ANY-3
Academic-ANY-3
Academic-ANY-2
Journalism-5
Matrix Security Procedures-4
Tir Tairngire-1


Qualities:   (Racial / Positive / Negative)
Codeslinger
Creature of Comfort / Middle
Dayjob / 20hr
Fame / National
Friends in High Places
Guts
Jack of all Trades
Low Light Vision
Overclocker
SINner / National / Tir Tairngire
Trustfund / Middle /+500



Karma Remaining = 92   -->>   Turn to Cash = $184,000

Quick PACK Ideas:
Basic Decker Pack = 124,000
Basic Runner Pack = 10,000
Tactical Helmet Pack = 6000
Basic Cyber Programs Pack = 2000
Advanced CyberPrograms Pack = 2000
Jammer Pack = 2000
Surveillance Pack = 2000
Medic Pack = 2000


Remaining Cash for Purchases  =  $34,000   
Hyundai Shin-Hyung  =  28,500   
2x  Datajack (Alphaware)  =  2,400   
Ace of Hearts w/ Electrochromic  =  1,500   
Remington Suppressor + 20 Gel Ammo + External Smartlink  =  950   
Forgery Kit  =  500   
Clothing - Average x 7  =  140   
Security Tags & Datachips  =  10   



I was a bit shocked by how good the skills were & how bad the attributes were, but I guess that comes from filling out several of the "Real Life" modules. 

Let me know what you think, would he make a passable Decker/Face ?

[Pap Renvela]

Will he make a good decker- yes.
Will he make a decent Face-yes.

Can he sneak-nope. Better have the mage's spirit use concealment on him.
Combat-hides under desk while shouting out orders.

This character is tremendous at  some things and hideously pathetic at certain things most shadowrunners do.

I like it- interesting RP opportunity with this one.

Since Lang ranks is a cap on your social limit- I'd put those 4 points into English otherwise your limited to max 4 successes.

[Tarislar]

Can he sneak-nope. Better have the mage's spirit use concealment on him.
Combat-hides under desk while shouting out orders.

This character is tremendous at  some things and hideously pathetic at certain things most shadowrunners do.

I like it- interesting RP opportunity with this one.

Since Lang ranks is a cap on your social limit- I'd put those 4 points into English otherwise your limited to max 4 successes.

Thanks for the review & suggestion.

As for combat, in my head I'm thinking he will never see it.
I had the concept in my head when making him that because of a combo of social stress from one Module & his Fame quality that he would be a shut-in type decker, like "Jane-in-the-Box" from the Dragon Heart Trilogy.  Kind of a Behind the scenes type character.  Able to get them into certain areas, also great at legwork, but doesn't actually "run" with them in combat situations.  At least not w/o some serious concealment options.

I ended up buying off the Social Stress and evolved him into a person who hides their runner side from the public, but has a secret yearning to go out and be exciting & do dangerous things.  Before going back to their nice safe cushy life & job.

Thanks for the English suggestion,  I was thinking something similar,  thought about peeling off 1/3 points for a 3rd language but now that you reminded of the limit, I'm against that.

Actually, as I was working on the Module system, I really felt that making Sperethiel the "Native" language of an entire country was really dumb.
It was supposed to be rare & something that most Elves didn't actually speak.   I know its 20 years later now but I really doubt its what is "Most Common" there for Languages spoke.
I think it should have been flipped & still had English as the primary language.
Actually, I'm not sure how Any of the USA/Canada area SR-Nations have anything but English as the Primary Language.  (Except Quebec)

[Pap Renvela]

What modules did you buy?

[Tarislar]

That would have been useful wouldn't it.

40-Elf
15-Tir Tairngire - Elf
40-Corp Drone
50-Home Tutored
80-State College/University - Computer Science
100-Post Graduate Studies
100-Combat Correspondent
100-Celebrity
100-Shadow Work - Decker
Subtotal 625

25-Attributes  (Body-3, Edge-2)
8-Buy off Social Stress
92-Turn into Cash
Total 750

[Tarislar]

So I was working on some changes to make him more combat effective.  I also realized my math was off in the EDU Module.

In the end it took too big a hit to the Face/Decker aspect when it was completed and it really only worked for the Skills since the Attributes were not much better for Physicals & the Mentals took quite the hit.

So finally I came up with a slightly different design of the original Decker/Face.  Not sure if its better, worse, or just different.
Dropped a RL-Module to get some other abilities.
I think this is the final tally.


Elf - Age 33

Attributes:
Body-3
Agility-2
Reaction-2
Strength-1
Willpower-3
Logic-6
Intuition-5
Charisma-8
Edge-2
Essence-6
Magic-2
Initiative-7+1D


Active Skills:
Group - Electronics - 7
Group - Athletics - 1
Etiquette - 7
Hacking - 7
Perception - 7
CyberCombat - 6
Negotiation - 5
Leadership - 3
Electronic Warfare - 2
First Aid - 2
Instruction - 2
Chemistry - 1
Con - 1  (+2 Mentor)
Intimidation - 1
Pilot Groundcraft - 1
Pistol - 1  (+1 Wireless)


Language/Knowledge Skills:  (Incomplete)
English - Native
Spanish-1
Sperethiel-1



Qualities:   (Racial / Positive / Negative)
Adept
1st Impression
Creature of Comfort / Middle
Dayjob / 20hr
Friends in High Places
Jack of all Trades
Low Light Vision
Mentor Spirit - Raven
Overclocker
SINner / National / UCAS
Trustfund / Middle /+500


Power Points:
0.5 - Authoritative Tone-1
0.5 - Combat Sense-1
0.5 - Eidetic Sense Memory
0.5 - Melanin Control
0.0 - Traceless Walk
0.0 - Voice Control-1


Karma Remaining = 100   -->>   Turn to Cash = $200,000

Quick PACK Ideas:
Basic Decker Pack = 124,000
Basic Runner Pack = 10,000
Tactical Helmet Pack = 6000
Basic Cyber Programs Pack = 2000
Advanced CyberPrograms Pack = 2000
Jammer Pack = 2000
Surveillance Pack = 2000
Medic Pack = 2000


Remaining Cash for Purchases  =  $50,000   
Lower CyberArm  w/  Agi-6, Cyberdeck, Commlink, Armor-3, Fingertip Compartment   (Used)   =  33,000
Suzuki Mirage  =  8,500   
3x  Datajack (Alphaware)  =  3,600   
Ace of Hearts w/ Electrochromic  =  1,500   
Ares Globetrotter  (Elec-4)  =  1,300
Remington Suppressor + 20 Gel Ammo + External Smartlink  =  950   
Clothing - Average x 7  =  140   
Security Tags & Datachips  =  10   

Remaining Cash = $1,000



Dropped Combat Correspondent & Celebrity to add Corporate-Decker & 100 Karma for other stuff.
Shifted Tir, State College & Shadow-Decker to UCAS/Denver, Ivy League, & Shadow-Face


He's a still not very useful in combat, but, at least he's not likely to glitch & shoot himself like before.

[FST_Gemstar]

I like this a lot!  A magical Decker/face is hard to pull off! 

Can the character have both Logic 6 and Charisma 8 (elf hard caps?)

I don't know if there is a way to sneak in Too Pretty to Hit (in case you are in the line of fire)?

[Tarislar]

I like this a lot!  A magical Decker/face is hard to pull off! 

Can the character have both Logic 6 and Charisma 8 (elf hard caps?)

I don't know if there is a way to sneak in Too Pretty to Hit (in case you are in the line of fire)?

Yeah,  it wasn't my original intention,  just kind of came about as I was tinkering with all the different models.

No idea on the Double Cap.
It says nothing about Attribute Caps in Char-Creation section of Run-Faster.
It does say Skills are capped at 7-Active, 9-Knowledge instead of the normal 6.
So I'm assuming since no Limit of 1 cap is mentioned that racial cap is all there is.


I don't have much room to fit in anything, but I could look around to see what might fit.

[Pap Renvela]

Your making the assumption because they didn't restate a rule it doesn't apply.
That's a weird way of looking at things.
Take a look at skill caps: because the normal creation cap of 6 doesn't apply they stated it.
So the natural assumption on attribute caps would be if it was different they would state it.

However, as GM I wouldn't care if the modules brought 2 attributes to max. It can easily happen to orks/trolls with their lower maximums and they shouldn't be forced not to take modules because of it.

[Tarislar]

Meh,  I just listed the totals.  If they are capped then I can change around modules.
Though really, I think instead of changing caps on any of it they should have just had a rule to redistribute the points to another location just like they have with skills.
I'd have left all the caps in place & instead just gone with a single line about overcap being shifted.
They half state that but its not done well & clearly.

[Tarislar]

Okay,  redid some things again to avoid the double cap in case that is an issue.

Also went for a bit more face skills & less decker skills based on the new attribute totals.

And now I need some advise from all the Deckers/Hackers out there because I'm torn on where to put some points.

Here is the situation,  I have 13 variable skills that need to be assigned,  and I need some elite deckers to point me in the right direction.

Relevant Attributes/skills for this new build are as follows.

Logic-7       (Went ahead & bought Exceptional Attribute as a PQ because didn't want to loose the free Log point)
Intuition-4
Charisma-7

Minimum Skill Levels:
Con-2
Perception-3
CyberCombat-3
Hacking-3
Electronic Warfare-2

Disclaimer:  Outside a small detour in 1st Edition where I "experimented" with a tiny bit of decking as a 3rd option for a character that focused on Combat & Magic, I have never hacked anything.

So to me when I worked this up I ended up as follows.

Con-6         (Con is capped at 6 as I am limited to 4 points at most to assign to it, all others can hit cap-7)
Perception-7
Cybercombat-4
Electronic Warfare-2
Hacking-7

This was based on the fact that I knew he would use Con for the Face side of his character & Perception is just an AWESOME skill to have ranks in.
And since Hacking seems to be more common than Cybercombat in the campaign I was in a year ago or so.

But my question for you all is how would you assign those points?   
I really have no idea how Deckers work now other than they use Electronics & Cracking groups for more/less common actions, so I'm all ears here.

So, how would you assign those 13 points to the minimums above, assuming the above attributes at chargen?




Also, as a secondary question.

Any suggestions on a better use of the 2 Power Points he has.   

I lost the Mentor Spirit with this build now that he's Logic-7 

But it can be picked up later post chargen so not a total loss.

Currently assigning the 2 points as follows.
0.5 - Authoritative Tone-1
0.5 - Combat Sense-1
0.5 - Eidetic Sense Memory
0.5 - Melanin Control

I chose those 4 because they seemed like a nice diverse selection of stuff to help him out in a variety of situations.

But again, all ears if you can suggest something I missed that would be a way better use of the PPs.

[FST_Gemstar]

I always try to make cybercombat work, but in actuality, if you have have to rely on cybercombat when hacking, something has already gone to hell. better not have to get in that situation in the first place. So it doesn't leave a lot of wiggle. I would move that one excess cybercombat point to a specialization in Hacking or Con, or if you can't use it to specialize, I guess to Electronic Warfare.  Alternatively, depending on your table and how they use sensors, you can pump Electronic Warfare instead of Perception, and use EW to make perception tests when using a sensor array. There is disagreement on how apply that rule though, but if you are ok being a sensor ops decker/face, than it could save you some more skillpoints and help with hiding/snooping and such in the Matrix.

For Adept Powers, maybe be less flavorful and just take Improved Reflexes 1 and Combat Sense? So at your first initiation or if you up your magic rating, you can take a PP to get IR 2. You can AR hack more effectively then. For a face, that may be more important. However, I like the more magical powers too, so it's a tough call.

[Pap Renvela]

I always try to make cybercombat work, but in actuality, if you have have to rely on cybercombat when hacking, something has already gone to hell. better not have to get in that situation in the first place. So it doesn't leave a lot of wiggle. I would move that one excess cybercombat point to a specialization in Hacking or Con, or if you can't use it to specialize, I guess to Electronic Warfare.  Alternatively, depending on your table and how they use sensors, you can pump Electronic Warfare instead of Perception, and use EW to make perception tests when using a sensor array. There is disagreement on how apply that rule though, but if you are ok being a sensor ops decker/face, than it could save you some more skillpoints and help with hiding/snooping and such in the Matrix.

For Adept Powers, maybe be less flavorful and just take Improved Reflexes 1 and Combat Sense? So at your first initiation or if you up your magic rating, you can take a PP to get IR 2. You can AR hack more effectively then. For a face, that may be more important. However, I like the more magical powers too, so it's a tough call.

I'm with the group that believes you can use EW with sensors in place of Perception...

[Tarislar]

I always try to make cybercombat work, but in actuality, if you have have to rely on cybercombat when hacking, something has already gone to hell. better not have to get in that situation in the first place. So it doesn't leave a lot of wiggle. I would move that one excess cybercombat point to a specialization in Hacking or Con, or if you can't use it to specialize, I guess to Electronic Warfare.  Alternatively, depending on your table and how they use sensors, you can pump Electronic Warfare instead of Perception, and use EW to make perception tests when using a sensor array. There is disagreement on how apply that rule though, but if you are ok being a sensor ops decker/face, than it could save you some more skillpoints and help with hiding/snooping and such in the Matrix.

For Adept Powers, maybe be less flavorful and just take Improved Reflexes 1 and Combat Sense? So at your first initiation or if you up your magic rating, you can take a PP to get IR 2. You can AR hack more effectively then. For a face, that may be more important. However, I like the more magical powers too, so it's a tough call.

I'm with the group that believes you can use EW with sensors in place of Perception...

So based on what you 2 have said you'd go with the following?

Con-6
Perception-3
Cybercombat-3
Hacking-7
Electronic Warfare-7


I cringe at the thought of surprise/perception checks on only 7 dice unless you have sensors running.   

I don't think you can assign a skill level point to a specialization in life modules can you    If you can then awesomesauce!

I did consider the Reflexes idea because I LOVE that ability for my combat oriented characters.

But, it just seemed like such a small boost for nearly all my magic PP for a character that isn't likely to see combat. (if at all possible)

What kind of sensors would you use?   Is there a way to mount a sensor device in a helmet?

[Pap Renvela]

Forgot this is a life module build and there are no current modules that give a specilization to any languages so...
You would have to pay 7 karma as a specialization during the karma phase.