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Stat Descriptions for Attributes

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Raiderjoseph

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« on: <02-24-16/0059:07> »
You know how in the SR5 Players Manual they have a description for how each of the points in a skill would translate into your character? Well how would you translate points in an attribute?
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PiXeL01

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« Reply #1 on: <02-24-16/0103:41> »
You can't really because the total can be derived from different sources. There's no need for Bioware to be as bulky as cyberware for instance and races muddy the waters even more. Then you can throw adept powers and spells into the mix and the result would be even more damning than a Lovecraftian horror.
If Tom Brady’s a Spike Baby, what does that make Brees and Rodgers?

Reaver

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« Reply #2 on: <02-24-16/0106:40> »
this is a hard to pin down, mostly due to the spread in attributes among the various races :(

However, if you put a baseline to it, you get the SR 4 table: (taken from page 67 SR4eA)

HUMAN ATTRIBUTE RATINGS
RATING DESCRIPTION
1 Weak
2 Underdeveloped
3 Typical
4 Improved
5 Superior
6 Max unmodified human




Is that kinda what you are looking for?
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Raiderjoseph

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« Reply #3 on: <02-24-16/0108:16> »
this is a hard to pin down, mostly due to the spread in attributes among the various races :(

However, if you put a baseline to it, you get the SR 4 table: (taken from page 67 SR4eA)

HUMAN ATTRIBUTE RATINGS
RATING DESCRIPTION
1 Weak
2 Underdeveloped
3 Typical
4 Improved
5 Superior
6 Max unmodified human




Is that kinda what you are looking for?

Actually yes! This helps me out greatly.
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Reaver

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« Reply #4 on: <02-24-16/0126:29> »
this is a hard to pin down, mostly due to the spread in attributes among the various races :(

However, if you put a baseline to it, you get the SR 4 table: (taken from page 67 SR4eA)

HUMAN ATTRIBUTE RATINGS
RATING DESCRIPTION
1 Weak
2 Underdeveloped
3 Typical
4 Improved
5 Superior
6 Max unmodified human




Is that kinda what you are looking for?

Actually yes! This helps me out greatly.

Glad to have helped.  I do, and I don't like this type of table myself.

It can lead to unfair bias for the various races, (and has even lead to some huge debates here on these forums). But, some times, you have to start some where if you are going to have an idea where people "fit" on the ability table, and I find this list to be vague enough so as not to be an issue as some other Games have made...

Just how smart is "Improved" anyway :P   <Ask say, 10 people where they are on this list, and I bet you 8 of them will say "improved". Yet Stats say, half the people you talk to in a day, are BELOW average intelligence :P >
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

PiXeL01

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« Reply #5 on: <02-24-16/0131:07> »
Since I work at In the public school system that makes me fear for humanity even more ...
If Tom Brady’s a Spike Baby, what does that make Brees and Rodgers?

Reaver

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« Reply #6 on: <02-24-16/0133:13> »
Since I work at In the public school system that makes me fear for humanity even more ...

<.<
>.>

As an administrator?
As a teacher?
Or do you do ACTUAL work?
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Novocrane

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« Reply #7 on: <02-24-16/0140:20> »
I wouldn't do more than say 1-6 represents the range of human attributes you're likely to encounter in an average group of people. Anything beyond 'average person' in either direction starts to venture into qualities, skills, etc.

PiXeL01

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« Reply #8 on: <02-24-16/0144:59> »
Teach, so I can be blamed for misleading the masses to come.

And actual work? Well it is hard work hammering the wonderful and colorful brain of children into the small gray cube that society demands ... Quenching the hopes and dreams of those you actually could make it, had they only been allowed more rope.
If Tom Brady’s a Spike Baby, what does that make Brees and Rodgers?

Reaver

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« Reply #9 on: <02-24-16/0206:03> »
Teach, so I can be blamed for misleading the masses to come.

And actual work? Well it is hard work hammering the wonderful and colorful brain of children into the small gray cube that society demands ... Quenching the hopes and dreams of those you actually could make it, had they only been allowed more rope.

That's me, blowing off steam :P

Thanks to the down turn in the economy, I've gone from picking and choosing the contracts I wanted to work, to doing side residental jobs under my contractor liecense.

My last 3 customers where teachers..... Never seen THAT level fundimentally STOOOPID in my life. (And I miss-spelled stupid on purpose!)

The frist was actually OFFENDED that I wanted to be PAID for doing the work! (Currently have a lien on his house. Boy is he in for a Surprise!)

The Second, after I laid out the job, costed and itemized everything, and displayed all the various building laws that had to be complied with looked me square in the face and said: "Yea, but if you don't followed the code, I save $3000. So Don't." To which I reminded him, that the city still had to sign off on the job. And WHEN they notice its not to code, I could not only lose my license, I could go to jail,  replied with a "So? I don't want to pay that. So don't by that safety equipment".


Yea....


The 3rd teacher threw a giant hissy fit at me when I told her she had to pay for the recepticles and wire I put in her Garage. SHE DEMANDED THAT IT WAS FREE!!! And all she had to pay for was my time.....

After arguing with her for over an hour. I charged her my Instrumentation rate. $375/hr for 3 hours work. (About 8 times what her bill would have been. Receptiles and wire included). We are due in small claims court next month.


Now, that said, I know some fantastic people who are teachers. My best man teaches History in the Catholic High school here, so I know its not ALL of them :P

But you deal with 3 like that in 2 months..... you vent!

Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

PiXeL01

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« Reply #10 on: <02-24-16/0326:29> »
Well, your vent and rant have nothing to do with me and I find it completely justified. So I take no offense what so ever.
I wish things would improve on all fronts for everyone.

I would put most my attributes at 3, except maybe Logic at 4 and willpower at 2 ^^
If Tom Brady’s a Spike Baby, what does that make Brees and Rodgers?

Raiderjoseph

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« Reply #11 on: <02-24-16/0711:00> »
I had some bad expeirences in public school. It was back when they didnt know Aspergers was a thing so I got lumped in with the small classes until 9th grade. That was fun. And 9th grade up I was home schooled.
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Critias

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« Reply #12 on: <02-24-16/1246:56> »
I'd alter the SR4 stat "average" table down a notch.  I think SR5 runs a little more smoothly (with the priority system and the changes in starting attribute points, etc) if you consider a 2 to be average-ish, instead of a 3. 

Beta

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« Reply #13 on: <02-24-16/1342:47> »
I was just thinking about this the other day, and concluded that were I to start a new game I’d lay it out to players per the bullets below.  Note that this is my categorization, and may not match up with how other’s see it.  But perhaps if others disagree they could propose their own added detail.

•   The categories below are for the entire adult population of humans.  Some are spread very randomly throughout the population (such as willpower), while others may skew off centre for certain demographics (i.e. men tend to have higher bodies than women, young men in particular are more apt to have higher strength, while reactions and agility tend to fade with age so average higher in the young and lower in the older.  In other words, it is not that surprising that a lot of grunts have fours in most of their physical stats.)

•   Three is not only the average, it is the score that close to two-thirds of people lie for any given stat.

•   Two and four are still reasonably common, about one person in seven will fall into each of those.  When you know a person with a stat in this area, you know they are good or bad in that area.  They are the klutz in your group, or the one always has their taxes in early, etc.

•   One and five are rare, and the extremes of what you will encounter day-to-day.  Only about two or three percent of people fall into each of those.  Scores of one represent significant trouble with what should be mundane tasks, scores of five mean you are quite noticeably better than most people in that area, and can improvise in that area with little odds of screwing up.  Even casual interaction with such people tends to make it apparent that they are unusual.  Indeed, when it comes to body or strength one can usually tell at a glance.

•   Zero and six are very rare in the population, only one or two in a thousand.  Zero is so bad that you’ll never see a shadowrunner with that stat, because the person is fundamentally not competent (imminent risk of death, tremors so bad they can’t walk or use tools, seriously mentally disabled, etc.)  A six is professional athlete level of physical prowess, star performer level of charisma, gifted detective level of intuition, etc.

•   With exceptional attribute, a few people will have a seven.  At this level one can become well known if they are so inclined and have complimentary abilities.  These are the strong men who pull semi-trailers, the renowned scientists, athletes who spend years at the top of their sport, actors who you will pay to go see without caring about the nature of the show they are in, etc.  In theory there would be an equivalent level of negative attribute, but such people never leave high care institutions (if they survive to adulthood at all) because they are fundamentally non-functional (completely non-verbal, surviving on a respirator, very frequent and severe seizures, etc).

•   For meta-humans, the percentages adjust based on the stat value (i.e. about two thirds of dwarves have a willpower of four while only two to three percent have a willpower of two), however you compare the ability to human levels based on the average stat (i.e. the ‘average’ (willpower=4) dwarf always had homework done on time and always installs the security patches on their commlink).  Yes when you look at what this means, dwarves and orcs are pretty scary strong, and trolls are in a whole other league when it comes to body and strength – just as we wouldn’t normally compare human size and strength to that of a polar bear .

Raiderjoseph

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« Reply #14 on: <02-24-16/2034:17> »
I was just thinking about this the other day, and concluded that were I to start a new game I’d lay it out to players per the bullets below.  Note that this is my categorization, and may not match up with how other’s see it.  But perhaps if others disagree they could propose their own added detail.

•   The categories below are for the entire adult population of humans.  Some are spread very randomly throughout the population (such as willpower), while others may skew off centre for certain demographics (i.e. men tend to have higher bodies than women, young men in particular are more apt to have higher strength, while reactions and agility tend to fade with age so average higher in the young and lower in the older.  In other words, it is not that surprising that a lot of grunts have fours in most of their physical stats.)

•   Three is not only the average, it is the score that close to two-thirds of people lie for any given stat.

•   Two and four are still reasonably common, about one person in seven will fall into each of those.  When you know a person with a stat in this area, you know they are good or bad in that area.  They are the klutz in your group, or the one always has their taxes in early, etc.

•   One and five are rare, and the extremes of what you will encounter day-to-day.  Only about two or three percent of people fall into each of those.  Scores of one represent significant trouble with what should be mundane tasks, scores of five mean you are quite noticeably better than most people in that area, and can improvise in that area with little odds of screwing up.  Even casual interaction with such people tends to make it apparent that they are unusual.  Indeed, when it comes to body or strength one can usually tell at a glance.

•   Zero and six are very rare in the population, only one or two in a thousand.  Zero is so bad that you’ll never see a shadowrunner with that stat, because the person is fundamentally not competent (imminent risk of death, tremors so bad they can’t walk or use tools, seriously mentally disabled, etc.)  A six is professional athlete level of physical prowess, star performer level of charisma, gifted detective level of intuition, etc.

•   With exceptional attribute, a few people will have a seven.  At this level one can become well known if they are so inclined and have complimentary abilities.  These are the strong men who pull semi-trailers, the renowned scientists, athletes who spend years at the top of their sport, actors who you will pay to go see without caring about the nature of the show they are in, etc.  In theory there would be an equivalent level of negative attribute, but such people never leave high care institutions (if they survive to adulthood at all) because they are fundamentally non-functional (completely non-verbal, surviving on a respirator, very frequent and severe seizures, etc).

•   For meta-humans, the percentages adjust based on the stat value (i.e. about two thirds of dwarves have a willpower of four while only two to three percent have a willpower of two), however you compare the ability to human levels based on the average stat (i.e. the ‘average’ (willpower=4) dwarf always had homework done on time and always installs the security patches on their commlink).  Yes when you look at what this means, dwarves and orcs are pretty scary strong, and trolls are in a whole other league when it comes to body and strength – just as we wouldn’t normally compare human size and strength to that of a polar bear .

So a reaction 6 and Agillity 6 Gunslinger Adept would be a incredible level of coordination and speed? How would you roleplay that?
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