[Monkoflords]

Would a reasonable plot point be the PCC actually invading San Diego to absorb it then? Or is that totally ridiculous?

[Wakshaani]

Would a reasonable plot point be the PCC actually invading San Diego to absorb it then? Or is that totally ridiculous?

That'd be declaring war on Aztlan (And, by extension, Aztechnology), in order to conquer the largest military naval base on the west coast. The questions are: A) is it worth it and B) could you win?

In official records, the Ute had about 12 million population, the PCC had about 12 million, and LA had about 3 million, before "The gobbling". Pre-Rio Gambit, the PCC had an official population of 38.5 million. These numbers are likely inflated (The NAN were terrible about that), and a more likely number is circa 6 million, but, officially,  the census figure is now at about 40 million.

Aztlan, officialliy, is at about 168 million.

So, The PCC is outnumbered by about 4:1, but does have higher tech. Magical assets are probably stronger on the Azzie side, depending on how much the Ute still have in the Great Ghost Dance tank.

It would be a very painful war, and without CAS support, the PCC isn't likely to win. And right now, teh CAS aren't friendly to either nation.
 

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

A better plot would be a shadow war between the PCC and Horizon, for the PCC to re-negotiate some of those contracts that have made Horizon such a powerhouse in Los Angeles.  While there are in actuality far too many other corporations in LA to really be a problem for shipping - let's face it, what a national government uses shipping for is mostly military and humanitarian goods - but Horizon really, really doesn't want to push the PCC to the point of saying 'screw this, we're out of here', because if they did, an hour later Aztlan and Aztechnology rolls up to Horizon's corporate HQ and knocks with a tank round.

[PiXeL01]

Since Aztlan doesn't really have any distractions to deal with then the answer would be a no. It might possibly could have been done during the Az/Am war

[Wakshaani]

Since Aztlan doesn't really have any distractions to deal with then the answer would be a no. It might possibly could have been done during the Az/Am war

Ayup. The PCC and CAS were getting *quite* cozy, and with SIrrurg having moved into Roswell to strike at each of them as well as in Aztlan (Trying to trigger an international incident or seven), while teh Azzies were tied in with Amazonia, dealing with Sirrurg strikes, and having to worry about ever-twitchy Yucatan ... it was a bad place to be. The Rio Gambit dstracted the PCC and turned their CAS ally into an upset rival. Just like that, the Azzies freed up the northern border from what could have been serious invasion worries.

It was expensive, sure, but cheaper than war.

[CitizenJoe]

The no man's land between LA and San Diego is a toxic radioactive wasteland, according to Corporate Enclaves.  Also, the Alchera in the area is problematic.  Aztlan didn't offer up San Diego either. 

A more viable, and likely already in place strategy is Boise, which is split between the SSC, TT and former Ute.  The Snake and Columbia are both navigable, and closer to SLC.  But the point may not be so much the actual use of the rivers, but rather the potential use.  If you only have one port, that port has you by the short curlies.  If you imply that you'll build another port, the first will fight to maintain its monopoly.

[Beta]

Typical river navigable is a long way short of an ocean port.  Even the St. Lawrence seaway uses ships much smaller than current ocean going vessels.  Offloader from a large freighter to a river boat may still be better than offloading to trucks .... but it is still vastly inferior to an ocean port.

[Tecumseh]

Not to derail the conversation, which I am enjoying, but is Boise split in-canon? I know that's what the Shadowrun Wiki says, but I've never seen that in print. Is that from Never Deal with a Dragon?

[CitizenJoe]

I'm gonna guess Shadows of North America has a tiny blurb.

I've just expanded it so much in my head canon that I'm not sure how much is published.  As I recall, the bit I saw was before the Ute got annexed by the PCC.

[Angelone]

I was under the impression that the Rio Grand was navigatible due to magic in a similar way it changed many other natural things.

[Nath]

Not to derail the conversation, which I am enjoying, but is Boise split in-canon? I know that's what the Shadowrun Wiki says, but I've never seen that in print. Is that from Never Deal with a Dragon?

Tir Tairngire SB featured a map that interupt the border between Tir Tairngire and Salish-Shidhe where it sould go through Boise. The border otherwise follows the Instate-84, which would put Boise southern suburbs inside Tir Tairngire. According to the map, the Ute border appears to be about ten or twenty kilometers south of Boise.
As far as I can tell, the text never mentionned Boise situation. It worth noting the border between the Tir and the Salish doesn't result from an international treaty, but ought to hail from the initial Tir coup. The fact the map shows the border just above the I-84 may suggest the Tir border patrol drives it as a means of establishing their control. On the other hand, there should probably be a story for the Tir to control only Boise souther suburbs. The official story is that the Tir troops were highly successful, so rather than failing to take full control of the city, they may have only attempted to seize control of a Boise "immigrant district" (possibly because they were very far from the main objectives and possible reinforcements).

The map in Shadows of North America and Sixth World Almanac shows Boise at the point where Tir, Salish and Ute border join.

I haven't been able to find any text about Boise in Native American Nations, Volume 1, Tir Tairngire, Target: Smuggler Havens, Shadows of North America and Land of Promise. Only The Sixth World Almanac has one sentence, page 193. I have no idea where the Wikia gets the border raid in the late 2060ies from.

[Tecumseh]

Shadows of North America does have two paragraphs on Boise plus one Shadowtalk comment. It talks about how Boise has had a rough century, ever since it was depopulated after the Treaty of Denver. See p 123:

"Originally the Cénesté claimed the city, but after a short fight with Salish loyalists they were forced out. Today the southwest corner of the city is technically in Tir hands - but this is more a polite fiction used to justify a large tax and duty free merchant zone."

I presume they actually mean "tax- and duty-free", as the current wording/punctuation somewhat suggests two opposites ("large tax" vs. "duty free").

Good thinking to check the map in Tir Tairngire. I hadn't thought to do that.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

I was under the impression that the Rio Grand was navigatible due to magic in a similar way it changed many other natural things.

Not as far as I'm aware, but I'll confess to not having read everything there is - and I haven't read the NAN books or SoNA in a dog's life.  I'm not saying it's not possible, because it absolutely is, but the Rio Grande is like a poor man's Nile river - one which without man's interference floods its length for about three weeks every spring as it takes care of the snowmelt from its catchment basin, but which (because of weather patterns) simply doesn't have enough for the rest of the year to be anything more than a nice, lazy, and relatively shallow river.

Just as an FYI, this is the Rio Grande's catchment basin:

The waterflow of the dark brown area (northern basin) is primarily snow-melt driven, which is of course once per year; the waterflow of the light brown area (southern basin) is primarily summer rainfall, which isn't all that heavy due to the mountain ranges that are all right there west of them.  (Snow has time to build up, and melts relatively all at once.  :/ )

[Monkoflords]

So I finally got Native American Nations 1, and I appreciate the little section in there on the PCC, though there isn't too much (and some of the information is outdated).

I was thinking of taking the airship system, and replacing it with a more widespread internal light rail system. Mainly because train based action sequences amuse me. Also, since I assume Aztechnology is out, who replaces the general nonsense like Stuffer Shack? Internal companies?

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Understand that international finance and corporate law is bloody complex.  Stuffer Shack may well be a corporation that is entirely owned by Aztechnology, but it is not Aztechnology, e.g. 'Aztechnology's Stuffer Shack'.  The PCC doesn't want the AZT in its territory?  Great, AZT can't be there, AZT troops can't march along the fence line, AZT guards can't stand inside the door with their assault rifles.  That doesn't necessarily mean that Stuffer Shack, the wholly-owned corporation which itself might achieve a AA rating, is banned - because The Shack is not necessarily considered Aztechnology Corporate Property, any more than the local McHugh's franchise is the corporate property of the McHugh's Corporation.  Oh, sure the one inside the Seattle Pyramid is, and perhaps the flagship store in Seattle is as well, but remember the baseline rule of extraterritoriality - it has to be clearly labelled as being owned by an extraterritorial corporation.

That said, it'd be relatively easy to simply reskin it.  Grab a modern convenience store, stick it under a megacorporate flag (even the PCC's, because after all, they ARE a corporation), and poof, done.

About the rail system - could work, especially if it were a high-speed monorail between cities, with the airship stuff being only out from those 'lesser' depots.  A RL high-speed rail line between Los Angeles and Las Vegas has been proposed I don't know how many times now ...