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New AAA? maybe spoiler

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Rosa

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« Reply #60 on: <03-16-16/0716:59> »
As far as Knight goes, he is getting oooooold, and Leonization can only do so much.  I feel like if he makes it through this edition, he'll have to bow out by the end of SR6 or he's just going to be some ruthless corporate Elminster.

Knight is not the only one WHO is getting on in years, so is Richard Villiers and Nakatomi ( Renraku, formerly of Fuchi with Villiers ). Honestly it's time for some of these old geezers to bite the bullet.

Sendaz

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« Reply #61 on: <03-16-16/0741:09> »
Ah but that is part of the dystopia isn't it?

The ultrarich and powerful can afford longer lifespans clutching desperately to what's theirs while the underlings/descendants look up with hungry eyes at the prize seemingly ever out of their reach because of the living mummy at the top.

Frankly I am surprised it isn't more prevalent than it is in canon, with the repercussions of it starting to creep in.

And to be fair, you are bitching about some 'geezers' who haven't broken the century mark yet to the best of our knowledge, Damien's exact age is unknown but probably pushing 80s-90s at most,  what are you going to do with your elven & dragon overlords who will be stepping on you for far longer? ;)
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Nath

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« Reply #62 on: <03-16-16/1820:07> »
Honestly? It takes a helluvalot to bring down a AAA. Hell, the backlash from the whole SCIRE incident only rung Renraku's bell, globally speaking. It butchered their North American division, but they didn't lose AAA status. In Crash 2.0, both Novatech and Cross had been engaged in brutal corporate wars and were already weakened. Ares and Cross had been trading shots for years, going back and forth like two heavyweight boxers. The only reason there even was a Novatech IPO to jumpstart the Crash was because Arty-boy had been systematically butchering Novatech with a kind of single-minded hatred seen in true zealots.
To be fair, there's one and only one thing that can take down a AAA: the line developer's will.

In 2059, Renraku lost an arcology, major computer system, a number of its best and brightest engineers, along with the death of tens of thousand people. A majority block among the other corporations backed the UCAS government in suspending Renraku extraterritoriality, which was just another way of saying that Renraku was (locally) not up to the requirements of the corporate extraterritorial privileges.
And that came just month after Renraku avoided a guilty verdict for industrial espionage and sabotage on the Corporate Court only because Fuchi would have been found equally guilty and everyone favored a settlement. The case was so serious that the settlement actually included the expropriation of a shareholder. And the situation also led to the departure of Brightlight, who hacked into Renraku computers to entirely erase two years of work, forcing Renraku to spend months retro-engineering their own software and hardware products, their core business. And then the CEO took an "indefinite leave of absence" with the board unable or unwilling to chose a replacement for over a year. And Renraku was a publicly traded corporation with no shareholders over 10%.
Nothing happens.

In 2065, Cross Applied Technologies, which for some reasons decided to borrow money from companies its top-notch intelligence service was unable to figure out belonged to Ares-owned Bank of America (instead of borrowing from the Zurich-Orbital Gemeinshaft Bank like AAA are entitled to). Then its CEO died in an air crash, leaving his sixty-years old son, the respected Chairman of the board, as the owner of 60% of the stock, with 27% belonging to a seasoned corporate executive with an intimate knowledge (and just as intimate hatred) for Ares.
Cut to Ares taking over subsidiaries it wants, other megacorporations trying to do the same. Next turn, the Corporate Court vote out Cross to make room for Horizon as a AAA.

Maybe Horizon manipulated public opinion, governments and corporations on an epic level to force its way onto the Corporate Court as a necessity (something not told anywhere). Maybe Cross entire intelligence service vanished overnight (barely addressed). But try having your entire North America management vanish overnight instead.
The point is not that Cross could get voted out the court while Renraku couldn't. The point was that while Cross shareholding structure made it basically invulnerable to a takeover, which would have been unlikely when most megacorporations should have been in damage control mode, Renraku was a perfect target at a time all the other megacorporation were up and running.

The actual difference is that neither Mike Mulvihill nor Rob Boyle wanted Renraku to disappear in third edition, while Rob Boyle wanted Cross to before moving to the fourth edition. It will be basically the same thing for the next AAA to disappear. It doesn't have to make sense because the events will be set up so as to achieve the desired result - the reasons for Renraku survival are just as made-up as Wuxing, Cross and Horizon cases to become AAA, or Richard Villiers ability as Fuchi CEO to order the sale of JRJ International to himself without anyone reporting it to the board (in real life, such operation would account to a fraud - no mention yet of Yamana and Shiawase suing in Zurich-Orbital and Tokyo courts at least to make Novatech look bad).

It's not about nuyen and sense, it's only about which way the line is going.

Crimsondude

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« Reply #63 on: <03-17-16/0210:37> »
The actual difference is that neither Mike Mulvihill nor Rob Boyle wanted Renraku to disappear in third edition, while Rob Boyle wanted Cross to before moving to the fourth edition. It will be basically the same thing for the next AAA to disappear. It doesn't have to make sense because the events will be set up so as to achieve the desired result - the reasons for Renraku survival are just as made-up as Wuxing, Cross and Horizon cases to become AAA, or Richard Villiers ability as Fuchi CEO to order the sale of JRJ International to himself without anyone reporting it to the board (in real life, such operation would account to a fraud - no mention yet of Yamana and Shiawase suing in Zurich-Orbital and Tokyo courts at least to make Novatech look bad).
The demise of CATCo is an excellent example of what not to do.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #64 on: <03-17-16/0351:06> »
The demise of CATCo is an excellent example of what not to do.
The rise of CATCo is an excellent example of what not to do, too.  "Oh, we had these guys spread through all the top 50 corporations throughout the world the entire time, and nobody could ever have found them, and they're just so great at what they do, and ..."

...

That CATCo was eliminated in such a cavalier fashion is very, very low on my 'how not to' list.  :P

To be entirely honest, however, I don't think it likely that it'll be a disappearance - just a downgrade.  Let's say Evo gets the axe.  Evo isn't going to just disappear; it's still going to be a major player in all sorts of pies, and it's going to be scrambling and gunning to get a Corporate Court justice back, to make it into the AAA ranking again.  If it loses its justice and its corresponding 10% of share in the ZOG, that's the only thing it'll have lost - not the financial resources to hold onto its companies, the naval muscle it has to keep its container ships protected, its space infrastructure; it'll lose an 'A'.

In short, it will still be a megacorporation.  It just won't have as big of bragging rights, or as much influence, as it used to.

Which could make whatever corp that winds up getting the axe a very, very dangerous corporation indeed ...
« Last Edit: <03-17-16/0356:09> by The Wyrm Ouroboros »
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Rosa

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« Reply #65 on: <03-17-16/0511:06> »
Ah but that is part of the dystopia isn't it?

The ultrarich and powerful can afford longer lifespans clutching desperately to what's theirs while the underlings/descendants look up with hungry eyes at the prize seemingly ever out of their reach because of the living mummy at the top.

Frankly I am surprised it isn't more prevalent than it is in canon, with the repercussions of it starting to creep in.

And to be fair, you are bitching about some 'geezers' who haven't broken the century mark yet to the best of our knowledge, Damien's exact age is unknown but probably pushing 80s-90s at most,  what are you going to do with your elven & dragon overlords who will be stepping on you for far longer? ;)

Well everybody knows that Elves and Dragons are much better at the Whole running the Things show, so that won't be a problem.... ;D

No but seriously, you're right that it's part of the dystopian World of shadowrun and i don't really have a problem with it ( not a problem with Knight nor with Nakatomi nor with Korin Yamana ), i have a problem with the continued same old same old storyline with Villiers. In a World of cutthroat corporate sharks, i have a hard time accepting that noone has actually identified him as a major part of the reason why his corps end up going Down and simply removed him from the equation, because thats what's best for business.

And yeah i don't think anyone of us are in doubt as to the fact that it is the Devs thats decides these Things based on what they think is best for the games Development. That doesn't stop a lot of us from airing our pet peeves and wishes in a vain hope that the devs might be listening or just to banter sometimes, because Shadowrun is a cool universe and it's fun talking about it.

As to what The Wyrm Ouroboros said, a downgraded leaner, meaner more dangerous version of one of the AAA's could be interesting. In that case i would hope that they follow up on it with some adventures or something, otherwise it's practically the same as it being gone.

Sendaz

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« Reply #66 on: <03-17-16/0542:03> »


No but seriously, you're right that it's part of the dystopian World of shadowrun and i don't really have a problem with it ( not a problem with Knight nor with Nakatomi nor with Korin Yamana ), i have a problem with the continued same old same old storyline with Villiers. In a World of cutthroat corporate sharks, i have a hard time accepting that noone has actually identified him as a major part of the reason why his corps end up going Down and simply removed him from the equation, because thats what's best for business.

And yeah i don't think anyone of us are in doubt as to the fact that it is the Devs thats decides these Things based on what they think is best for the games Development. That doesn't stop a lot of us from airing our pet peeves and wishes in a vain hope that the devs might be listening or just to banter sometimes, because Shadowrun is a cool universe and it's fun talking about it.
That is a very good point as with NeoNet taking a bashing again, my suggested scenario earlier of Caroline absconding with the Golden Ticket sounds good at first, but given that the Villiers have played Trojan Horse before with the Lanier/Renraku incident, any Corp taking that Ticket in has to be seriously looking for House Harkonnen level booby-traps/sleepers/legal shenanigans/etc of some sort so it doesn't blow up in their faces later.

Do you believe in a greater WIRELESS, an Invisible(WiFi) All Seeing(detecting those connected- at least if within 100'), All Knowing(all online data) Presence that we can draw upon for Wisdom(downloads & updates), Strength (wifi boni) and Comfort (porn) or do you turn your back on it  (Go Offline)?

DeathStrobe

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« Reply #67 on: <03-17-16/1337:36> »
Just to be fair, Villiers only had a direct hand at killing Fuchi because he wanted his own Mega Corp. After he got it, that being Novatech, who'd have ever guessed that coincidentally running into a former Fuchi employee and slighting him because he's a tweaking beetle head would have pissed him off so bad that he'd try to kill your Mega Corp and almost succeed. Obviously, you don't want to NOT have a mega corp, so going public and losing absolute control just to keep your corp running makes sense. And who'd have guessed that an God level AI and a doomsday cult would all attack your IPO at once on the same day and destroy the entire Matrix. I mean, seriously, what are the odds?

Obviously, you still want your Mega, so joining forces with a few Double A's that specialize in the Matrix makes sense to make NeoNET. But who'd have freaking guess that when one of your best and lead researchers, who just so happens to be a Great Dragon, goes and releases a highly infectious nano tech virus and that it gets out of hand and infects an entire sprawl, I mean, how could you possible predict that? He's suppose to be on your side. He's suppose to be looking out for your Mega's best interest because his finances are tied to yours.

Fuchi is kind of his fault. And Art Dankwalther to another degree, but honestly, who'd have seen that coming? But Boston? That's not his fault. Crash 2.0 is also not his fault.
« Last Edit: <03-17-16/1800:42> by DeathStrobe »

Crimsondude

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« Reply #68 on: <03-17-16/1700:00> »
The demise of CATCo is an excellent example of what not to do.
The rise of CATCo is an excellent example of what not to do, too.  "Oh, we had these guys spread through all the top 50 corporations throughout the world the entire time, and nobody could ever have found them, and they're just so great at what they do, and ..."
That sounds more like Proteus. The worst thing CATCo did was have badass spies.
« Last Edit: <03-17-16/1734:17> by Crimsondude »

Wakshaani

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« Reply #69 on: <03-17-16/1719:58> »
Yeah, Proteus having remote-operated clones active in, say, 2055? Kind of a problem.

But, you know ... it s what it is.

Crimsondude

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« Reply #70 on: <03-17-16/1741:37> »
But, you know ... it s what it is.
Indeed.


Anyway, you're all wrong. Maybe.

Nath

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« Reply #71 on: <03-17-16/1806:56> »
The rise of CATCo is an excellent example of what not to do, too.  "Oh, we had these guys spread through all the top 50 corporations throughout the world the entire time, and nobody could ever have found them, and they're just so great at what they do, and ..."
That particular assertion was made in Corporate Download ("[The Seraphim] have their feelers sunk in almost every AA and AAA corp in the world, no to mention most national governments."). That's way closer to Cross apex than to its rise, well into third edition era once Cross Applied Technologies had AAA rating. It actually doesn't say for how long they enjoyed such position (and at that point the Seraphim had taken over a part of Dunkelzahn shadow network).

The actual issue with CATCo (and Wuxing) rise was that it took place over the span of two books, Portfolio of a Dragon: Dunkelzahn's Secrets and Blood in the Boardroom. They were not even mentioned in Corporate Shadowfiles. Cross did not even appeared in the only available description of Québec - The Neo-anarchist Guide to North America (actually the only mention of Cross local presence I remember was a one-liner in Target: Smuggler Havens' New Orleans, and Wxuing had about as much). There was an established setting, which fleshed out all the existing AAA (and a few lesser corporations like Lone Star Security Services) and Cross and Wuxing weren't part of it.

Once they were admitted into the AAA gang, the fact they would be the best at something ain't the problem. The Seraphim were basically a corporate rip-off of the Mossad. The suggestion they would have moles in every megacorporation might be a bit too extreme (unless any number of low or even mid-level informants count, in which case it actually wouldn't be such an impressive feat). Meanwhile, Saeder-Krupp had unbeatable chessmaster Lofwyr, Renraku had created an AI, and Aztechnology had teflon-coated reputation with consumers, and that was considered acceptable because that was part of the established setting.

CitizenJoe

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« Reply #72 on: <03-17-16/2054:29> »
Dunkelzahn saw it coming and even pushed things in that direction. 

Earthdawn dragons had a power called manipulate fate (or something like that).  In combat, they could turn your karma against you.  In a more narrative sense, his will was sort of a ritual use of manipulate fate.

PiXeL01

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« Reply #73 on: <03-18-16/0032:18> »
In SR3e they had that ability as well.
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Nightmare

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« Reply #74 on: <03-18-16/1426:45> »
But, you know ... it s what it is.
Indeed.


Anyway, you're all wrong. Maybe.

I knew it! It's actually that secret eleventh AAA corp that's going down!  Time to watch that McHughes clown fall!!!

 

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