[zarzak]

I've recently become enamored of the idea of building a character who doesn't need any equipment to function at his peak effectiveness.  Now, obviously, in most situations you can't have a character with zero gear in Shadowrun (you need fake SINs, etc), but I wanted to try to minimize that.

The route I decided to go was to have the following focuses:
1) Missile Mastery adept power - anything becomes a deadly weapon
2) Unarmed - missile mastery likes a high strength, so might as well go unarmed as well
3) Mystic Adept - if I'm not using gear I need to make it up somehow, and magic seems like an ideal way to do so

These focuses mean that I want a high strength, a high agility, a few key skills, and decent spellcasting ability.  I could use help optimizing this concept.

Right now I have the following:

Sum-To-Ten:
A - Metatype - Troll
B - Magic - Mystic Adept
B - Attributes
E - Skills
E - Nuyen

After attribute points and special points
9 Body
4 Agility
5 Reaction (would be 2 reaction, but I'm giving him level 3 improved reflexes to start - I could drop this down if necessary)
10 Strength
5 Willpower
1 Logic
4 Intuition
1 Charisma
3 Edge
6 Magic

+ Qualities
Mentor Spirit - Shark
Ambidextrous
Trust Fund

- Qualities
SINner
Code of Honor
Distinctive Style

Skills:
Spellcasting (Combat Spells) - 6(8 )
Unarmed (some martial art + mentor spirit) - 8(10)
Throwing Weapons (Non-Aerodynamic) - 6(8 )
Counterspelling - 5
Assensing - 1 (bought with karma)
Perception - 1 (bought with karma)
Sneaking - 1 (bought with karma)
Etiquette - 1 (bought with karma)

Spells (Chaos Magic Tradition)
Levitation
Stunball
Napalm
Healing
Improved Invisibility
Detect Enemies, Extended
Chaotic World

Adept Powers
Imp. Reflexes III
Combat Sense I
Astral Perception
Missile Mastery
Killing Hands

Gear (spend 2 karma on 4k nuyen)
Armor Jacket w/Forearm Guards + Ballistic Mask
Renraku Sensei
Fake SIN (Rating 2) + Fake Magic License (Rating 2)
2150 nuyen remaining

Contacts
Talismonger - 2 connection, 1 loyalty
Counterspelling - 5

My first thoughts:
1) His agility should be higher
2) He should really have Enhanced Accuracy; maybe dropping a point of Imp. Reflexes might be worth it?
3) Witness my Hate seems like it might be nice to fit in
4) Is trying to get a 'called shot' package worth it? (some martial art with called shots, the sharpshooter quality, and the strive for perfection quality)
5) Is Counterstrike worth trying to fit in?
6) Is troll 'worth it'?  I thought I'd want as high a strength as possible for unarmed/missile mastery, but would orc or dwarf be sufficient, given the higher drain dice + higher agility they'd allow?  I also considered being a minotaur, but I don't know that its going to give whatI need
7) Am I missing anything else, anything obvious?  Initiation stuff like Barrage is of course good to go for, but I don't believe you can initiate at char-gen?

[Jack_Spade]

Gearless is possible but hard. Very hard.

Why are you wasting your time with thrown weapons when you have spells that are more effective and aren't hobbled by low accuracy?

If you want to use weapons, I'd suggest taking unarmed combat and a MA that gives disarming.
Counterstrike is a nice trick but it relies on your opponents engaging you in melee - which is not that likely if you are a troll.

Gearless also means you have no armor to speak of, so reinforce and armor become essential. Summoning also gains importance 
Voudou tradition would certainly be useful for that too (possessing armor to improve it)

For all those reasons I'd strongly recommend not to be a troll - they just are hideously expensive.
Elf or human are a very strong option here.

[zarzak]

Gearless is possible but hard. Very hard.

Why are you wasting your time with thrown weapons when you have spells that are more effective and aren't hobbled by low accuracy?

If you want to use weapons, I'd suggest taking unarmed combat and a MA that gives disarming.
Counterstrike is a nice trick but it relies on your opponents engaging you in melee - which is not that likely if you are a troll.

Gearless also means you have no armor to speak of, so reinforce and armor become essential. Summoning also gains importance 
Voudou tradition would certainly be useful for that too (possessing armor to improve it)

For all those reasons I'd strongly recommend not to be a troll - they just are hideously expensive.
Elf or human are a very strong option here.

Like you said, I don't think fully gearless is really feasible.  I can see him having some armor (armored jacket and some accessories), a fake SIN, low grade comm, stuff like that.  But I don't want him to have any 'essential' gear.  I.e. if for whatever reason he gets screwed out of everything he's not going to be hurting because he doesn't have that key forbidden weapon, or that focus, or whatever.

Regarding thrown weapons - I really like the idea of a character where anything he can pick up is suddenly dangerous, regardless of background count or situation. 

Summoning is of course very strong, but I didn't have the skill points for it and counterspell.  If instead of being a troll he's an orc, with a breakdown like a) magic, b) attributes, c) metatype, d) skills, e) nuyen then he'd have the skillpoints I think ... but he'd have no edge.

[Pap Renvela]

Might be worth playing around with:

Metatype B Ogre(4)
Attributes B 20
Magic B MysAd
Skills D
Nuyen E

You end up with Edge 3 MR6

Adepts are initiated into a Way by taking the quality. So to get Barrage you need to spend 20 Karma to get the Warrior's Way and then 2 Karma to get the enhancement Barrage.

[Blue Rose]

Hm...

Looks like you're going to be taking a tradition that keys off of intuition instead of charisma/logic for drain?  If so, do keep in mind the roleplaying ramifications.  You actually need to know a thing or two in order to play a Buddhist or Zoroastrian mystic.

Or you could be a bug shaman.

Those are the only intuition-based traditions I can think of off the top of my head.

"Gearless" is largely about where you draw your lines.  Is a focus in tattoo form gear, or a part of you?  Likewise for augmentations.  If you have a monofilament whip build into your middle finger so you can murder fools by flipping them the bird, is that gear or no?

[Pap Renvela]

Hm...

Looks like you're going to be taking a tradition that keys off of intuition instead of charisma/logic for drain?  If so, do keep in mind the roleplaying ramifications.  You actually need to know a thing or two in order to play a Buddhist or Zoroastrian mystic.

Or you could be a bug shaman.

Those are the only intuition-based traditions I can think of off the top of my head.

"Gearless" is largely about where you draw your lines.  Is a focus in tattoo form gear, or a part of you?  Likewise for augmentations.  If you have a monofilament whip build into your middle finger so you can murder fools by flipping them the bird, is that gear or no?

Egyptian and Psionic are both Intuition (as well as Possession)Traditions. PCs cant be bug shamans.

 Augmentations are most certainly gear. Arguing the semantics of the word is the context of this thread.

[Jack_Spade]

The thing is: You are a mage. You can just improve your strength by magic - or through drugs and Detox.
Troll becomes even less appealing that way.
Indirect combat spells suffer the least from background count, so it's not really that much of a problem.

Good Intuition traditions are:

Chaos
Psionic
Druidic

[zarzak]

I figured on the chaos magic tradition (I have it in the build but its sort of buried) - I think its a pretty fun tradition.

For augmentations - augmented characters are fun (especially the monofilament whip in the finger ), but I wanted to do something that doesn't use nuyen.  This also helps avoid MAD scanners an the like.

Thanks for the info on the adept initiation.  So 22 points to get barrage ... might be worthwhile to give up a powerpoint or two to do it.  What does everyone think?  Would starting with, say, 4-5 powerpoints + warriors way + barrage be worthwhile as opposed to 6 powerpoints?  There is no way to start with enough karma for both 6 powerpoints + warriors way/barrage.

I'll take a look into Ogre.    I think the race + agility think is the real sticking point with the concept right now.

Regarding strength: Improving strength by magic/drugs is of course an option, but it sort of defeats a lot of the appeal of missile mastery, as it requires prep-work to actually make your projectiles worthwhile.  Also sustaining the improved strength isn't an option if I'm trying to avoid being reliant on focuses, and relying on drugs is also a 'rely on some sort of equipment' restriction.

To clarify: I wouldn't argue that this is the most optimal way to build a character (I can build much more effective mages, or combat characters, or whatever), but I want to build the most optimal character possible within the restrictions I've given myself.

[Pap Renvela]

Since Ways don't cost double after chargen and you can't buy those PPs after chargen...you buy the 6 PPs first and worry about Barrage later.

[zarzak]

Since Ways don't cost double after chargen and you can't buy those PPs after chargen...you buy the 6 PPs first and worry about Barrage later.

Fair point!

[Blue Rose]

Even one rank of Focused Concentration, and you can get a spell to boost your strength to your augmented max and sustain it indefinitely without penalty, since you won't have to use that slot to boost your initiative.  It costs a little nuyen, but nothing you need to really haul around; you cast the spell at Force 1, then use reagents to boost the limit and edge the casting roll for enough hits.

Also, keep in mind, if you quick draw, you can draw a throwing weapon and attack as a single simple action.  This gives you room to reckless cast a spell to up your strength before you attack.

[zarzak]

Even one rank of Focused Concentration, and you can get a spell to boost your strength to your augmented max and sustain it indefinitely without penalty, since you won't have to use that slot to boost your initiative.  It costs a little nuyen, but nothing you need to really haul around; you cast the spell at Force 1, then use reagents to boost the limit and edge the casting roll for enough hits.

Also, keep in mind, if you quick draw, you can draw a throwing weapon and attack as a single simple action.  This gives you room to reckless cast a spell to up your strength before you attack.

I like the idea of Focused Concentration + Increase Strength or Increase Reflexes.  Without reagents its just a nice +1 boost to the reflex for the low cost of 5 karma + 1 spell.  With reagents it can be much more.  I'll drop Trust Fund (didn't really fit with the character idea anyways) for it.

Quick Draw (and the Rapid Draw adept power) would be more useful, except they require the weapon in question to be properly holstered.  It works great for traditional throwing knives, which the character may or may not have on hand, but not for impromptu things (like Mr. Johnson's nice gold filigree pen).  A good combat consideration though.

[Blue Rose]

In the case of improvised throwing implements, they're easy to have at the ready.  It's easy to keep something innocuous in your hand without arousing suspicion.   Then it would be reckless spell or boost attribute, followed up with an attack to throw your beer bottle.

[Blue Rose]

Oh!  One super important limitation I forgot to mention about casting a force 1 spell with reagents.  It's still a force 1 spell.  If you go anywhere with a background count of even 1, it's gone, and it's super duper easy to dispel.  In the likely event that your GM is annoyed by your amped up force 1 buff sustained off of one rank of focused concentration, expect to see one of these happen in short order.

[zarzak]

Oh!  One super important limitation I forgot to mention about casting a force 1 spell with reagents.  It's still a force 1 spell.  If you go anywhere with a background count of even 1, it's gone, and it's super duper easy to dispel.  In the likely event that your GM is annoyed by your amped up force 1 buff sustained off of one rank of focused concentration, expect to see one of these happen in short order.

Right, it wouldn't be useful everywhere ... but it provides a nice sometimes boost ... and again, much more in flavor for a possession-less character than trust fund (though trust fund enables it in a different way, I suppose)