[Blue Rose]

Mechanically equivalent?  Sure.  Get your eyes swapped out, get some combination of Exceptional Attribute and Genetic Optimization, get metatype reassignment via biosculpting, sure.  It makes you very dwarf-like/elf-like, but it doesn't make you a dwarf/elf.  It makes you a poser.

When Michael Jackson was arrested, the cops listed him as 'white,' because for the purposes of what they needed to write that down for, his appearance was what mattered, but on a census, he was still counted as African American.

[CitizenJoe]

I see you caught it first try.  The distinguishing feature of dwarves is natural Thermographic vision... shared by Trolls. The rest can be done by attribute allocation and the resistance to pathogens quality.

So, from the outside, how do you know a dwarf is a dwarf?

[Blue Rose]

You don't.  But odds are very good they do.  And the number of people who are going to lie about their ethnicity/metatype on a census is not that big.  If you have a SIN, you have gone to a doctor before, who has taken a blood test, that has verified that you are either a human or a dwarf.

Also, even on top of those basic mechanical things, dwarves do have different biochemistry.  There are a few toxins floating around out there that dwarves are just immune to.  All those modifications would still just be an approximation of dwarvenness.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Uh ... no.  It can't.  You can't have it all ways, CJ.  You're trying to say that 'the rules are the only thing that matter' when it comes to 'making a dwarf', and yet that you have to be able to see external characteristics, and yet you won't say what defines a dwarf from a human with growth hormone deficiency or a number of the other causes of RL 'dwarfism'.

You're trying to say that a shaggy dog is a wolf, when it just ain't so.  They can interbreed, sure, but there are genetic differences, behavioral differences, visual differences (especially depending on breed), and all the rest.  By using 'can you make' you're stretching a couple of miles to reach the far, far end of the bell curve - that one human in ten million that has a slight mutation to allow him to see further into the red end of the spectrum, and/or who  has a bit more robust resistance to diseases and toxins.  So what, that Michael Jackson got arrested and was categorized as 'white'; his genetic markers all said 'black', and in Shadowrun, that's what defines your metaracial profile.

Stop trying to shove your crackpot philosophies into other people's questions about canon and pretend that your theories are canonical.  They aren't.  If you want to bring the topic of discussion up, do it in your own thread.

[Whiskeyjack]

Which is odd given that, reach disadvantage aside, they have good combat stats.

Eh, I disagree. They're expensive for what you get, and paying a little more gets you a lot more. Going from WIL 5 to 6 isn't really worth it (and it's of relatively low value to hard cap WIL at 7 versus hard-capping, like, INT or LOG or AGI).

[CitizenJoe]

Except for trolls, all the metatypes can take the quality "human looking".  That means that metatypes aren't discrete, there is a spectrum of phenotype expression from iconic human (whatever that means) to iconic dwarf (whatever that means).  When you exhibit enough traits of a dwarf, based on some arbitrary standard, you get labeled a dwarf. 

My assertion is that the primary trait is being short.

By comparison, being an elf means being tallish, skinny, with pointy ears and almond shaped eyes.

Since dwarves need one trait, and elves need half a dozen, elves will have to be much more uniform to qualify while dwarves just need to be short.

[Mirikon]

Joe... just stop. Really. You make Plan 9 look sane. And that's POST-CFD!

[Tarislar]

Here's the official numbers from Seattle in 2070 (this does not include SINless and is of one city; one can imagine various cities have various populations), compared to the 'current' percentage world-wide.
Humans: 66% - 39%
Elves: 13% - 15%
Dwarves: 2% - 14%
Orks: 16% - 22%
Trolls: 2% - 5%
Other: 1% - 5%

Humans take a precipitous dip, but a good fraction of that is because they basically drew off of the human totem pole to get the others to their current level.  It also doesn't factor in SINs for the equation.
While I don't think elf populations should be growing, that too could be a part of local versus world-wide.
Dwarfs having such a steep increase in population this edition does seem a little...  Off.  That said, as one of the main metatypes, I definitely wouldn't have left them at 2%.  That's far too low.  Perhaps my idea of dwarfs just avoiding Seattle works. 
It is explicitly stated that ork populations are booming, with an expected 30% of the world population being ork around 2080.  That is an insane increase compared to usual humans, but ork physiology does help that along.  Also, less documentation due to less likelihood to have a SIN.  Having 5 years to go up 6% could be reasonable.  And it still doesn't factor in the bias of in-game polls of the Seattle numbers versus the world-wide population numbers. 
Trolls should be somewhat rare, but 1% seems extremely low as well.  Given trolls don't fit into cities that well and have the same kinds of issues with SINs as orks do, I'd tend up a little here as well when compared to the Seattle numbers, though not as high as dwarfs. 
Others getting such a population increase is extremely off, in my mind.  Adding up all of the numbers from the individual metasapients and all, the Other population comes out to an estimated 481,500, with no numbers for SURGE or Pixies given.  Rounding it up to 500,000 to fill in the gap would mean they would have to be 500,000 out of 10,000,000 to be 5% of the population (unless the pixie horde is much larger than anticipated, and they're awaiting the chance to strike).  We can brush these guys into the cracks as far as I'm concerned.   

Someone mentioned the night of rage already which probably thinned out quite a bit of the Meta population.

But I'll add that Seattle's location next to 2 big Meta areas (Tir & Crow) would likely leave it lower over all as well since many of the Meta's moved to those other areas.  I mean why stay permanently in Seattle when you have people next door that don't hate you for your looks, size, etc, etc.

Also the Barrens don't count everyone & that is where a Lot of the Meta's moved to as well.

Finally, IIRC VITAS killed off 25% + 10% or something like that, of the worlds Human Population, then 10% of the Humans Goblinized over night.
So really, having humans down to 39% of the Population doesn't seem like THAT big of a stretch.

WIth Elves & Dwarves having 60 years+ & the Orks Trolls at 40+, that is 3 Generations now & Humans still giving birth to Metas.
Yeah, I could see it.

[Tarislar]

As to the specific case of deckers?  Personal experience means nothing, but I've only seen folks play dwarves in technical roles.  Ever.  Riggers, combat medics, and deckers.  That's it.  In the rare instance I see people bother with dwarves, that is.

Which is odd given that, reach disadvantage aside, they have good combat stats.

Eh, I disagree. They're expensive for what you get, and paying a little more gets you a lot more. Going from WIL 5 to 6 isn't really worth it (and it's of relatively low value to hard cap WIL at 7 versus hard-capping, like, INT or LOG or AGI).

I don't know.  I find Dwarf Casters to be particularly good.
They beef up the physical stats that usually get dumped & 7 Will is nice for Drain of all kinds as well as Stun Boxes.
Thermo & Resists just add to a Caster since things like Cyber to get similar boosts doesn't work well for them.

Really the only downside that they have, IMHO, is the Lifestyle issue.  They wear the same shirts & are not any shorter than a lot of the short people I know & they don't have to scale everything for them.  So to me the cost of tailoring your pants shouldn't be 20% of everything you do.
If anything they use less fabric in those pants so its a net wash.  I'd put them at 0%.
 (For that matter I think Trolls should be down around 50% instead of 100%, but I digress)

[MijRai]

Yeah, no.  Your assertion is invalid. 

First off, there is no arbitrary standard of 'if you look like this, you're a Dwarf.'  The traits of a Dwarf include eyes with thermographic vision, pointed ears, denser than average mass due to denser muscles and bones, a naturally more resilient immune system, a naturally stronger will and a below average height.  Being short is only the most easily noticeable trait of being a Dwarf (which is different from suffering from dwarfism).  If you do not have those (or the equivalents for the metavariants), you are not a Dwarf.  You were not born with whatever gave them their Dwarfiness.  Someone might mistake you for one, maybe.  Just because someone is short, has red hair and wears green in Tir Na nOg doesn't mean they're a leprechaun, even if they look like one. 

Being a Dwarf, being short and suffering from dwarfism are three very different things.  One is a genetic divergence from the human genome, one is just not being as tall as the average member of your race and one is a lack of growth/development due to some form of medical condition. 

There is no 'qualifying' for being a race.  You either are one, or you aren't.  You might not look exactly like one (Human-Looking does exist), but beneath that all, your genes say 'Elf, Ork or Dwarf.'  End of story.

Keep in mind Tarislar, the increase to Lifestyle accounts for all of the things those metatypes need.  For Dwarfs, it's getting furniture sized for them, doorknobs put at the right height, adjusting the grips of their weapons and equipment, etc.  And do you honestly run around with a bunch of 4 foot tall people?  Your 'average' dwarf is only 1.2 meters tall, which is below 4 feet.  They do need to get everything tailored or purchased specifically for them, as children's clothes aren't proportioned right for them.  And given the numbers of dwarfs in the world, it isn't going to be the same price as everything else.  Trolls have to get everything increased by a lot, made more durable due to their horns and dermal deposits (how do trolls even put on t-shirts?  I assume they mostly wear button-ups), resized so their giant fingers can manipulate it, etc.  Lifestyle also covers the increase in food needed to keep a 9 foot tall person active and healthy.  And again, this is for 1-5 percent of the population, a small group who are discriminated against regularly and don't generally earn as much money as others.  Lifestyle costs are just about perfect for trolls and dwarfs,

[Whiskeyjack]

7 WIL is just not as generally applicable as, say, 8 CHA (elves) or 6 INT/LOG. By which I mean, 8 CHA is a very solid basis to also do face stuff. 6 INT makes you better at going fast, doing, perceiving, assensing, or good at certain knowledge skills. 6 LOG (and I consider LOG to be the weakest of the drain stats honestly) lets you do some off-decking (if you're insane haha) do rigger stuff better, or just be really knowledgeable. WIL is a very passive stat - which isn't inherently a bad thing - it just makes you question whether maxing it for one more stun box is as valuable as improving dice pools that would be rolled with some frequency

[Blue Rose]

7 WIL is just not as generally applicable as, say, 8 CHA (elves) or 6 INT/LOG. By which I mean, 8 CHA is a very solid basis to also do face stuff. 6 INT makes you better at going fast, doing, perceiving, assensing, or good at certain knowledge skills. 6 LOG (and I consider LOG to be the weakest of the drain stats honestly) lets you do some off-decking (if you're insane haha) do rigger stuff better, or just be really knowledgeable. WIL is a very passive stat - which isn't inherently a bad thing - it just makes you question whether maxing it for one more stun box is as valuable as improving dice pools that would be rolled with some frequency

You say that, but any time you're resisting anything that isn't a bullet, you're probably rolling X+WIL.  It's just so applicable to so many things, even if it does tend to be passive.

[Glyph]

Dwarves and orks both have good stat bonuses (note that dwarves get a bit of extra love in SR5, getting +2 rather than the +1 Body they got in SR4), but you need Priority: C or better to play one, and both have disadvantages.  Orks have slightly lower maximums for some mental attributes that will likely never be a real factor for most builds.  Dwarves, on the other hand, take a hit to their Reaction maximum, have a lower running speed, pay extra for lifestyle, and require specially made gear.  So really, it isn't surprising if they are not as popular of a choice.

[Whiskeyjack]

7 WIL is just not as generally applicable as, say, 8 CHA (elves) or 6 INT/LOG. By which I mean, 8 CHA is a very solid basis to also do face stuff. 6 INT makes you better at going fast, doing, perceiving, assensing, or good at certain knowledge skills. 6 LOG (and I consider LOG to be the weakest of the drain stats honestly) lets you do some off-decking (if you're insane haha) do rigger stuff better, or just be really knowledgeable. WIL is a very passive stat - which isn't inherently a bad thing - it just makes you question whether maxing it for one more stun box is as valuable as improving dice pools that would be rolled with some frequency

You say that, but any time you're resisting anything that isn't a bullet, you're probably rolling X+WIL.  It's just so applicable to so many things, even if it does tend to be passive.

Yes, I do say that, and am comfortable saying it.

What are you thinking of for X + WIL, incidentally, besides resisting some spells and powers? 2 dice isn't going to help much against a well-equipped spell caster, unless you have your own guy counter spelling.

[Blue Rose]

Yes, I do say that, and am comfortable saying it.

What are you thinking of for X + WIL, incidentally, besides resisting some spells and powers? 2 dice isn't going to help much against a well-equipped spell caster, unless you have your own guy counter spelling.

Spells, lots of drugs and poisons, composure, drain/fade, mental/social limits, many (perhaps even most) critter powers, matrix defenses, full defense...