[SichoPhiend]

If you apply the modifiers which is a GM call since as mentioned earlier the perception check to notice magic doesn't actually mention any penalties it's just a straight opposed check. If it did mention all those penalties your applying I'd have less of an issue with it.

This part is kinda up for debate, but p. 135 has a section for Using Perception which has a blanket rule for any time you use the perception skill, I am personally inclined to think that because the noticing magic doesn't say "modifiers don't apply" that the rules for using the perception skill do apply.  Your mileage (and your GM's mileage) may vary.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Senko
For what it's worth, the rules are less black and white than you seem to think, at least judging by your posts.

Example; a Magician casting a Force 4 spell would incur a Threshold 2 Perception test, which according to the book (page 45) is an Average difficulty test. Again, even rank and file cops (PR 3) only get 6 dice, and I'd strongly disagree that RAW precludes Perception test modifiers from being applied. RAW it's a Simple Perception + Intuition test, thus by RAW Perception test modifiers apply. If the cop isn't specifically looking, is distracted by something else, and/or the spellcasting is obscured somehow, the dice pool is reduced by anywhere from 2 to 5.

And sustaining a Force 15 Spell will definitely get you noticed by the same magical security you want to make a difference. Average Joe Schmuck isn't going to notice you walking by him with a Force 15 spell sustained, but anyone perceiving you in the Astral has a decent chance of spotting you instantly since SR5 doesn't have astral visibility modifiers.

At this point we'll just have to agree to disagree; I think the Perception test works fine, and I personally don't care about GMs who adhere to RAW like some people do to the letter of their [insert religious book here]; I don't play the rules lawyer game at my table. Your mileage may vary, but I'd rather not cater to the lowest common denominator (not you, GMs and players who are dicks) than just figure out what works and move on.

Have a good one.

[Senko]

In my games things are a lot less black and white I just like to be 100% clear on rules as written so I don't get a situation like what happened once where a GM insisted based on perception rules I not only wouldn't notice a 15 foot tall statue before it grabbed me when I walked by it but I wouldn't even get to make a check. While if I know the why as well as the what I know what I can safely modify. In this case for my games I'm satisfied that check is a holdover from when mages glowed so I feel happy to remove it from non-mages leaving magic in the realm of those who can use it.

[Whiskeyjack]

I also like to carry a gun for the times suppressive fire with an SMG/AR is a better idea than casting spells.

[Hobbes]

If you apply the modifiers which is a GM call since as mentioned earlier the perception check to notice magic doesn't actually mention any penalties it's just a straight opposed check. If it did mention all those penalties your applying I'd have less of an issue with it.

This part is kinda up for debate, but p. 135 has a section for Using Perception which has a blanket rule for any time you use the perception skill, I am personally inclined to think that because the noticing magic doesn't say "modifiers don't apply" that the rules for using the perception skill do apply.  Your mileage (and your GM's mileage) may vary.

Standard modifiers for Perception tests apply otherwise every person in the world would get a perception test to sense every magical activation on the planet at all times.  Distance, LOS, and such all should apply to the Perception tests to spot Magic being activated otherwise you get to a very silly place very quickly.

[Reaver]

Hobbes, Hobbes, Hobbes...

I thought you had been here long enough to know that for some,  Reason and Common Sense are totally absent.

Hell, there have ACTUALLY been people coming here to argue that gravity doesn't apply because its not mentioned directly in the rulebook. <smashes head into keyboard. Repeatedly.>

Some people have honest questions, some people have honest confusion over things. Some people the community can help. And some there is no help

But honestly, at the end of it all, that's what makes table top gaming great.... All the little variances that happen between tables, the slightly different rules interpretations.... They make for interesting games when you find a table that is compatible with your game style.

[Hobbes]

Hobbes, Hobbes, Hobbes...

I thought you had been here long enough to know that for some,  Reason and Common Sense are totally absent.

Hell, there have ACTUALLY been people coming here to argue that gravity doesn't apply because its not mentioned directly in the rulebook. <smashes head into keyboard. Repeatedly.>

Some people have honest questions, some people have honest confusion over things. Some people the community can help. And some there is no help

But honestly, at the end of it all, that's what makes table top gaming great.... All the little variances that happen between tables, the slightly different rules interpretations.... They make for interesting games when you find a table that is compatible with your game style.

I think there was a dev post saying Gravity was RAI, but it didn't make it into the Errata.

[Herr Brackhaus]

[Sendaz]

Hobbes, Hobbes, Hobbes...

I thought you had been here long enough to know that for some,  Reason and Common Sense are totally absent.

Hell, there have ACTUALLY been people coming here to argue that gravity doesn't apply because its not mentioned directly in the rulebook. <smashes head into keyboard. Repeatedly.>

Some people have honest questions, some people have honest confusion over things. Some people the community can help. And some there is no help

But honestly, at the end of it all, that's what makes table top gaming great.... All the little variances that happen between tables, the slightly different rules interpretations.... They make for interesting games when you find a table that is compatible with your game style.

I think there was a dev post saying Gravity was RAI, but it didn't make it into the Errata.

Have you SEEN the wireless bonus Gravity was going to get???

And don't ask what happens when your Decker bricks Gravity.

[RiggerBob]

And don't ask what happens when your Decker bricks Gravity.

Obviously bricks would be able to fly then... 

[farothel]

And don't ask what happens when your Decker bricks Gravity.

Obviously bricks would be able to fly then... 

As would pigs, so everybody who said something like 'when pigs fly...' will be in for a big surprise

[Reaver]

There is the 'Pink Mohawk' way as well....

Roll a dwarf mage.
Make friends with a Troll 'tank' (the dumber the better).
Invest a few SP in armorer...
Make troll sized harness with dwarf sized saddle.
Place harness on Troll, ride into battle like Master on Blaster




<check out 'Bodies as cover', CRB>.
(If you don't get the cultural reference...... GIT OFFA MY LAWN <waves shotgun feebly from rocking chair>)

[Dinendae]

There is the 'Pink Mohawk' way as well....

Roll a dwarf mage.
Make friends with a Troll 'tank' (the dumber the better).
Invest a few SP in armorer...
Make troll sized harness with dwarf sized saddle.
Place harness on Troll, ride into battle like Master on Blaster

 


<check out 'Bodies as cover', CRB>.
(If you don't get the cultural reference...... GIT OFFA MY LAWN <waves shotgun feebly from rocking chair>)

[Richtenstahl]

OK, I didn't read all of it, but in my groups we tend to work together:
I've had two Groups with similar principles:

in one the mage had an obvious cyberarm and cybereyes with protevtive covers, along with, usually, a bomber jacket and combat boots and used an Uzi. He looked like a cybered Skinhead. Except he was black. The tank-sam of the group was a Voodoo-practitioning ork, wearing all kind of fake-magic-looking shit and -fetishes on his black longcoat and the top hat.
Guess who people tried to geek first.

In the other group the mage wore chrome shades and a silver longcoat (when not on stealth mode), and had clipped all kind of fake-cyberdeck-looking gizmos onto his clothes. The tank was a troll, who carved magic sigils into his horns, wore a robe over his armor, and threatened people with his "magic (LED-)glowing sword", shouting nonsense-spells. He even painted his grenades in a glowing color, so they more resembled fireballs, when he threw them.
 

[HobDobson]

Improved Invisibility and the Concealment power are your friends.  A mage really should be undetected by the "muggles" until you open up. 

I finally got to try that last session 

Seconding the idea of not tipping your hand too soon. Backing up the stealthy spellwork (including noise suppression) with actual stealth skills doesn't hurt. It really doesn't hurt to have a good codeslinger around to back up the boltlobber, as technomancers are even better targets for "recruitment". It's in everyone's best interest to suborn the opposing force's sensors, anyway.

With regard to perception rules, if I'm over-casting an area debuff like Chaotic World or Orgy, I really, really want the combatants Over There to be paying all their attention to that magic in the air around them ... and not to me or any other threats on my team. If I read the description right, CW should be getting their targeting system's attention too.

On the other hand, no one pays attention to the kid on a skateboard rolling by (light armor behind the pleather jacket, high agility, and a pistol and switchblade just because) or the drunk slumped against a wall (if you don't plan on moving around, why not wear more armor?) or the sniper nest ... that their drones maybe would have seen if they hadn't been hacked already.


As a 'teachable moment', take the time to show your team's mage how his friends "handle" an opposing spell-jockey in combat. After the composure check,  the value of camouflage, concealment, cover, disguise, deception, and holdouts should become self-evident matters of self-preservation.