[Rift_0f_Bladz]

Mmm, bubblegum! Oh, and hot chicks in sweet mechs!

[Herr Brackhaus]

Also don't forget artificial muscle fibers that apparently can make you stronger than power lifters, or the whole nanotech thing enabling complex surgeries like wired reflexes to exist, and custom grown tissue that makes you better in every way.

I think it's safe to say that this is one universe that is technologically superior to the modern world in almost every way.

And this artificial muscle doesn't require massive skeletal restructuring so the physical frame won't snap under the strains caused by the significantly stronger/faster muscles. And how does the Str 9 Agility 9 cyber limb have power (we are going to ignore how these would conflict with skeletal structure).

So again, please don't use realism for why ShadowRun doesn't have Mecha of some kind. It just doesn't work, because than most everything else will become suddenly impossible as well.

I'm not sure if that was directed at me, but if it was note that I am actually agreeing with you

Honestly, I think powered armor suits from Arsenal is closer to mech suits than mil-spec armor, which while certainly powered, isn't quite what I would associate with something like an Iron Man suit, unless you're going for an Iron Monger feel.

Don't know anything about anime, so...

Goodness! We need to introduce you to the original Bubblegum Crisis series (All six episodes of it) ... you'll see *so* *much* *Shadowrun* in there!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajTAnMqhZB8

Yeah, pass

Different strokes for different folks and all that. I'm more of a film noir guy; anime is not for me.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

No, it wasn't Herr Brackhaus. Just adding additional points to the ones you had.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Cool.

Just out of curiosity in general, what kind of size vehicles/suits are we talking about in general when the term "mecha" is used?

I've been browsing the web and looking at images, and the suits I've seen vary from troll sized to fit a human inside (i.e. 9 feet tall or so) to BattleTech and Pacific Rim sized jaegers (i.e. hundreds of feet tall).

Obviously, the latter would be completely inconceivable for a runner to ever get their hands on, as we're then talking beyond milspec in the SR universe. The smaller suits seems like something that could easily be houseruled with the drone rules; drop a rigger cocoon in a Juggernaught and you're good to go as far as I'm concerned.

At least, that's how I'd handle it at my table; maybe just add +25/+50/+100 percent to the cost of the drone to make it fit a dwarf/human, elf, ork/troll, respectively. And only allow it for certain sized drones. Job's a good'n!

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

Again, depends on the setting. For SR I wouldnt see anything of Gundam size or larger. I would figure the Juggernaut size to maybe slightly taller to at most 20ft (~6m). Modding the Juggernaut to have a Rigger Cocoon would be a fun way to make that thing functional in combat.

[Wakshaani]

Yeah, pass

Different strokes for different folks and all that. I'm more of a film noir guy; anime is not for me.

And what if I found you some noir anime? Because, you know ... it totally exists.

(Cyberpunk, of course, is *rooted* in noir, which is why I personally run "CyberNoir" games for my crew.)

[Herr Brackhaus]

I'd give it a try, of course, but I'll be the first to admit that the art style of what I've seen of anime so far is not one of my favourites to begin with so it'd probably be a hard sell.

[Xexanoth]

What you mean armor that can soak a single .50 cal round (as in no damage to the user) would be hard to move in? Shock!! So is actual body armor, such as majority of the heavy armors in SR 5. Full Body armor out of the core being one of the exceptions.

Thats exactly the point i was making, it's only (very good) armor, but nothing like a mecha suit. If it doesn't "enhance" your physical power, and weighs you down, it doesn't qualify as a MechaSuit, no matter how good it protects you.

As for the whole Anime discussion: Ghost in the Shell. All a cyberpunk fan needs.

[FasterN8]

      I've actually got a player trying to do this now for his missions character.  The catch is, he's a gnome with a Body and Str of 2 each and he weighs about 60 pounds.  He wants to ride around on his Anthro drones a la Mad Max, Master-Blaster style.

    I'm struggling with finding a way to say yes here, but my initial reaction is to require him to buy "Extra Seating" (2 MP) so that he can attach himself properly and then if he wants the full armor shell another 2MP for a rigger cocoon.  If course it will all be child-sized as I'd never allow this with any full sized character.  But hey, if they guy wants to play a character with a physical condition monitor of 7  (thanks to neotany) and an overflow of 2 , you got to give him something for creativity.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Speaking of which; does SR5 have rules for what happens if the vehicle you're in is destroyed?

[FasterN8]

       It does, but that rule takes the cake as the worst rule in the book, and not becasue it's confusing, just becasue it's completely dumb.  Pg 201 says in you take damage based on the body of the vehicle you're in.  It has nothing to do with the speed at which you were moving...  So if you're in a bigger vehicle  -standing still- you take more damage than a racing motorcycle?      Wait,  I guess that's for vehicle crashes, but it's still a dumb rule.

     As far as the Master-Blaster combo, I also have to figure a intuitive way to account for the fact that he's glued to the thing that is going to be taking fire.  Simply declaring them to be separate targets doesn't seem right, and he's going to be a VR-ragdoll on the back most of the time. 

There's so many out-of-the-box questions here.  I want to be relatively conservative since a primary concern is that another GM (at GenCon specifically) will see things differently and club him with the nerf bat.  Particularly since he'll be sitting next to me and not in front of me...
Does the drone defend when someone shoots at the rigger?
Does the rigger ever have to resist damage from attacks that pierce the drone armor?

[freddieflatline]

Cool.

Just out of curiosity in general, what kind of size vehicles/suits are we talking about in general when the term "mecha" is used?

I've been browsing the web and looking at images, and the suits I've seen vary from troll sized to fit a human inside (i.e. 9 feet tall or so) to BattleTech and Pacific Rim sized jaegers (i.e. hundreds of feet tall).

Obviously, the latter would be completely inconceivable for a runner to ever get their hands on, as we're then talking beyond milspec in the SR universe. The smaller suits seems like something that could easily be houseruled with the drone rules; drop a rigger cocoon in a Juggernaught and you're good to go as far as I'm concerned.

At least, that's how I'd handle it at my table; maybe just add +25/+50/+100 percent to the cost of the drone to make it fit a dwarf/human, elf, ork/troll, respectively. And only allow it for certain sized drones. Job's a good'n!

What I think they are talking about is generally called Powered Armor which is at it's largest about 9ft. tall.   Mechs have a certain connotation to them that at least to me says over 20ft.  A mech would be tank bait or or drone bait in the SR universe.  To big and slow.  I like Herr Brackhaus would make a powered armor by looking at large or heavy drones.  I would also use the drone rules for armor, equipment, etc...  If they are vehicle based it just too over the top.  By the way Bubblegum Crisis is awesome!  Bubblegum Crash is good as well and so is AD Police.  BGC 2040 is horrible the Voomers look like muppets.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

What you mean armor that can soak a single .50 cal round (as in no damage to the user) would be hard to move in? Shock!! So is actual body armor, such as majority of the heavy armors in SR 5. Full Body armor out of the core being one of the exceptions.

Thats exactly the point i was making, it's only (very good) armor, but nothing like a mecha suit. If it doesn't "enhance" your physical power, and weighs you down, it doesn't qualify as a MechaSuit, no matter how good it protects you.

As for the whole Anime discussion: Ghost in the Shell. All a cyberpunk fan needs.

Actually, it works really well as hardsuits, which may or may not enhance physical attributes, but do make the wear almost impossible to kill with normal weapons. The problem is most people thing of Iron Man. These are more like the beginnings of the hardsuits used in Star Ship Troopers (the book). They just haven't added so of the other features yet, or we get the "older" models in R&G. Since an equivalent of War hasn't come out for 5th.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Powered armor that actually enhanced the user was in Arsenal in SR4, not WAR!. The milspec armor in SR4 was described in a similar fashion to SR5, but additional modifications that I think most people would associate with primitive Iron Man like armor was allowed, like the below:

Integrated Weapons: Any of the cyberguns and cyber-melee weapons available for cyberlimbs (see pp. 336-337, SR4, and pp. 42–43 and 46–48, Augmentation) may also be integrated into military-grade armor at the same Capacity and nuyen costs.

Mobility Upgrade: By integrating additional servo-motors, improved joints, and similar enhancements, the armor’s mobility is increased to allow users that are not as strong and well trained to wear it without being slowed down too much. This enhancement reduces the encumbrance modifiers to Agility and Reaction due to the worn armor (see Armor and Encumbrance, p. 149, SR4) by its rating, and also adds a dice pool modifier equal to its rating to all Running Tests.

Strength Upgrade: This upgrade adds additional servos, hydraulic pumps, and an improved internal structure to the armor that increases the character’s Strength attribute by its rating. The usual rules for the maximum augmented attribute (see Attribute Ratings, p. 62, SR4) do not apply to this enhancement, since the increment is due to fully external mechanics and the sheer mass of the armor.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

With some tweaking those could be use used with the harden armor we have now, like the movement upgrade removing restricted. Or we might get something similar in a later book. Wakshaani, recreate this for 5th! Even if it is only a houserule to be posted here or in the child board of GM Lounge.