[Herr Brackhaus]

Civilian exo-skeletons have already been nixed by the 4th Edition writers because of cost-efficiency.

Manhattan’s unionized dockworkers used the Iron Will hydraulic exoskeleton when they were loading and unloading cargo in the early ‘30s and ‘40s. It’s kind of like a manservant drone, but you wear it. As the prices of augmentations and drones dropped, things like the Iron Will became less popular, and now there’s maybe two hundred still in use.

There is no need for a civilian model; the Iron Will already sets this precedent. Thus, any powered armor that exceeds the existing mil-spec armor in terms of features would be SOTA pieces of gear so far advanced that the "orders of magnitude" price tag and availability already mentioned by several people is entirely appropriate as far as I'm concerned. Mil-spec armor already makes you into a walking tank with all of the very obvious downsides this brings (i.e. expect that notoriety to rise, and the military to be called in if you wear it anywhere outside of an active warzone), so anything that is more advanced than that would be equally restricted to military use in addition to even more extreme availability and price differences.

In short, a suit that exceeds the existing mil-spec armor in functionality would not (yet) be mass-produced, and as such would have absolutely no impact on how augmentations and drones are used.

At least that's how I see it. And since this argument seems to be going in circles between two individuals at this point, I'll just bow out.

[MijRai]

Eh, I guess that settles it for canon.  I definitely disagree with it, but oh well.  Not sure where they're getting the cost-efficiency bit, though.  The strength augmentations for suits like that are cheap (apparently), as are the suits themselves (would it really be 10,000 nuyen for a frame-work version of light mil-spec armor?). 

At this point I'd consider the mil-spec armor of 4th Edition to be Power Armor.  Approximately the same price as the current model, but more options for improvement (and no Hardened Armor).  There's a disconnect between the two editions here, which is a part of the problem. 

[KarmaInferno]

      I've actually got a player trying to do this now for his missions character.  The catch is, he's a gnome with a Body and Str of 2 each and he weighs about 60 pounds.  He wants to ride around on his Anthro drones a la Mad Max, Master-Blaster style.

    I'm struggling with finding a way to say yes here, but my initial reaction is to require him to buy "Extra Seating" (2 MP) so that he can attach himself properly and then if he wants the full armor shell another 2MP for a rigger cocoon.  If course it will all be child-sized as I'd never allow this with any full sized character.  But hey, if they guy wants to play a character with a physical condition monitor of 7  (thanks to neotany) and an overflow of 2 , you got to give him something for creativity.

If it's for Missions, unfortunately the last rules update restricted the mods allowed on drones pretty hard. I have a similar issue converting my 4th ed pixie-driving-a-human-suit character for Prime Missions, ended up just getting a smuggling compartment for the character to ride around in.

Valkyrie Module is another possibility, but that requires Large size drones and the anthro drones from Rigger 5 don't actually have a size rating. Given that the anthro drones from other books tend to classify "adult metahuman size" drones as Large, arguably the Valkryie will work.


-k

[freddieflatline]

SK Jaeger Combat Powered Armor
HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARM PILOT SENSOR
4               4G        1            8         18      5          5

Notes: Anthroform Drone, Hardened Armor, Rigger Cocoon (MP 2), Smartsoft (Rating 3), Integrated H&K XM 30 (Left Arm, MP 4), Extended Ammo Bay (100rds, MP 2), Satellite Link

Tired of always dealing with electronic noise during ops?  Worried about the opposition hacking your main battle drone? Want your Rigger to survive in hostile environments?  Need them to stay with their drones no matter the situation?  Then buy the new SK Jaeger Mobile Combat Suit! It is your best option in war zones.  This fully rigged anthroform drone also acts as full on power armor giving your combat riggers an all-terrain vehicle to keep with their drone swarms.  The Jaeger is a .25 meters taller than your average Troll meaning that the mobile suit can move through most urban terrain unimpeded and even access the insides of buildings.   

[Just an idea I came up with]

[Herr Brackhaus]

Nice, I like it! Would name it Jäger, though, or the anglizied Jaeger. Other than that, sign me up!

[freddieflatline]

Nice, I like it! Would name it Jäger, though, or the anglizied Jaeger. Other than that, sign me up!

Made the changes you suggested.  I can never figure out how to do the umlaut. 

[freddieflatline]

Esprit Dragon-Slayer Combat Powered Armor
HANDL  SPEED ACCEL BODY ARM PILOT SENSOR
2             1G             1             10        20      4         5

Notes: Anthroform Drone, Hardened Armor, Rigger Cocoon (MP 2), Integrated ONOTARI ARMS BALLISTA MML (Left Shoulder, MP 6), Extended Ammo Bay (4 Missles, MP 1), RUHRMETALL SF-20 (Carried, Limited Ammo), Satellite Link, Secondary Propulsion: Tracked (Handl 2/4, Speed 3, Accel 1, MP 1)

Truly a beast on the battlefield.  The Esprit Dragon-Slayer is a 14 foot tall monster anthroform mobile armored suit designed to take on the toughest threats both airborne as well as ground.  It carries a total of 8 missles or rockets in the main weapon storage and secondary ammo bay.  This is one suit designed for rough or jungle terrain where normal armored vehicles cannot go.  Because of its slow walking speed the suit is equipped with a secondary track propulsion system (most of the system is outside of the suit proper and vulnerable to fire so that is why it only has an MP of 1).  The Dragon-Slayer is also equipped with a carried heavy machine gun standard (talk to your local rep about the optional Grenade Launcher or Assault Cannon).

      

[Banshee]

for what it is worth, in Missions drones can not carry metahumans, you can not add seating and you can not add a rigger cocoon

the reason for this is that once you add seating the drone then becomes a vehicle .. we allow Valkyrie units only because at that point the "passenger" should be not much more than cargo and even then only on drones that are large enough to effectively carry a metahuman ... if you want a walking vehicle take a standard vehicle and add the alternate propulsion system

with that being said ... anything goes in a home game as long as your GM approves it  and if that includes mecha's and power armor then so be it and what I see here is pretty cool from that point of view

[Herr Brackhaus]

I was very surprised that drones were able to take the Valkyrie mod; based on the description, it seems like it would take way more space than a rigger cocoon what with the full bed and medical equipment compared to an enclosed space for a metahuman to fit inside. At worst, a rigger cocoon is mostly going to be used by jumped in riggers anyway, so it's not like the character needs to move around at all.

[FasterN8]

Yeah, except for being armored and having a place to plug in, it's basically just a body sized cargo space, not really seating in the traditional sense.

[Banshee]

I was very surprised that drones were able to take the Valkyrie mod; based on the description, it seems like it would take way more space than a rigger cocoon what with the full bed and medical equipment compared to an enclosed space for a metahuman to fit inside. At worst, a rigger cocoon is mostly going to be used by jumped in riggers anyway, so it's not like the character needs to move around at all.

Yeah, except for being armored and having a place to plug in, it's basically just a body sized cargo space, not really seating in the traditional sense.

Well this is purely from a Missions point of view and with nothing "Official" to back it up ... it has nothing to do with size (though size is why the valkyrie is limited to large and up drones) and everything to do with "capabilities". We want to avoid having players running around in what would be effectively mobile hard armor.
While a cocoon may mostly be used by jumped in riggers, it still effectively a pilot seat since they would be controlling the drone they are "riding" directly one way or another which thus then turns the drone into a vehicle. Now if we end up seeing players trying to do an end around by using the valkryie unit to "care for" their meat body while jumped in then we will most likely have to put even more restrictions on it.

[Herr Brackhaus]

I'd go ahead and do that right away, Banshee

Granted, a rigger cocoon is better because it's armored, but the valkyrie module can definitely be used as a poor mans rigger cocoon. If the limitation on rigger cocoons is based on your rationale above, the logical step is to also disallow valkyrie modules because they can definitively be used to turn a drone into a vehicle.

[Jack_Spade]

I don't see what's so bad about riding a drone - their armor and body are usually really bad, not to mention the reduced damage track.

But yeah, the Valkyrie Module is an incredible bargain - a rating 6 autodoc/medkit for so little nuyen and build points - practically every runner car should have one installed.

[Banshee]

I'd go ahead and do that right away, Banshee

Granted, a rigger cocoon is better because it's armored, but the valkyrie module can definitely be used as a poor mans rigger cocoon. If the limitation on rigger cocoons is based on your rationale above, the logical step is to also disallow valkyrie modules because they can definitively be used to turn a drone into a vehicle.

well we wanted to leave the valkryie as an option for those runners who may need an extraction when the drek hits the fan and your buddy is leaking guts all over the place ... you can have robbie the robot scoop them up and start medical right away while leaving you and what is still standing of your team to focus on keeping the HRT off your back

[Herr Brackhaus]

You could solve that in a much easier way by simply allowing the Areoquip Dustoff drone from Bullets & Bandages; it's very specifically made to do hot extractions of wounded patients, after all.

Besides, it's not like an antrhoform couldn't scoop up a team member with it's arms, or any other drone with added mechanical arms. I just personally think it's really ambigious to allow the valkyire module, and arguably larger mod, and not the rigger cocoon. I totally understand your reasoning for not allowing the rigger cocoon, but I don't personally agree with that exact same reasoning when it comes to allowing a valkyire.

As you yourself said, people can just as easily use the valkyrie module instead of the rigger cocoon.