[Whiskeyjack]

Hey, been looking for a Way of the Burnout optimization thread, which I vaguely remember existing somewhere on these forums? But my search-fu has failed me. Was this an actual thing (and if so, link?) or just wishful thinking on my part?

[fseperent]

I do remember seeing a thread about ways, but search only draws from a time frame.
Honestly don't believe it was burnout specific.

[Sister Mary]

There was a thread in the character creation sub forum where someone (Pap Renvela?) posted a burnout char including some thoughts on optimization and a mini discussion.

http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=23632.0

Don't know if you mean that or something else.

[adzling]

Don't forget Ways don't cost double karma post chargen.

+ they do not contribute towards 25 karma cap on chargen qualities.

++ you can take burnout's way post chargen for free if you lose two points of essence from installing ware (install some dermal plating, super cheap, rip it out take that sweet burnout's essence discount for the good stuff).

+++ you lost the burnouts way if you raise your magic by two or more after taking it

++++ it stacks with Biocompatibility, Prototype Transhuman and Adapsin conferring anywhere from 20% to 40% essence discount depending upon how you structure those choices.

[Whiskeyjack]

Cool thanks y'all. I remember Pap Renvela's thread but it's also geared toward redliner cyberlimbs. I thought there was something out there more geared toward bioware.

[Sister Mary]

The problem with way of the burnout and bioware is the availability of a lot of useful bioware stuff: you want used muscle toner, eg. not standard (to cram in the rating 3 stuff). And, of course, the prohibitive nuyen cost which hinders you more than the essence cost to begin with.

Otherwise you want

- biocomp
- prototype
- restricted gear (adapsin)

If you want a bioware adept i'd probably forego burnout and adapsin, instead invest heavily in geneware (and drugs).

[Glyph]

The problem with the burnout way is that it gives such a temporary advantage - 15 karma for having standard augmentations be treated as alphaware; the same "benefit" you can get from getting the marginally more expensive alphaware in the first place.  Not to mention that you will be behind the power curve compared to an awakened character who gets betaware or better after the start of play.

It might be of marginal utility for a short-term game, but even so, it is only worth it if the 2+ points of augmentations that you take would have too high of an availability at alpha grade.  Cost is unlikely to be a factor - resources: C is usually not quite enough, but resources B is a dramatic leap up from that.

[Sister Mary]

@Glyph

Look at it from the other way: A burned out is not a mage but a cybered up street sam - who happens to be able to advance in a given game not only with nuyen (better 'ware) but karma, too (initiations, maigc powers).

Leaving just 1 point of essence free at char gen the alphaware rule grants a burned out the same amount of 'ware as a mundane cybered char with normal cyber/bioware. But s/he still has a magic rating on which s/he can expand on later once the game is underway.

Resources A like normal, just trade up magic from resources E to resources D (and buy back a point of magic rating now or later with karma). After 13 karma for an initiation you ave another point of essence free to fill with 'ware and still the potential to advance in "magical ways". 

[Hobbes]

The problem with way of the burnout and bioware is the availability of a lot of useful bioware stuff: you want used muscle toner, eg. not standard (to cram in the rating 3 stuff). And, of course, the prohibitive nuyen cost which hinders you more than the essence cost to begin with.

Otherwise you want

- biocomp
- prototype
- restricted gear (adapsin)

If you want a bioware adept i'd probably forego burnout and adapsin, instead invest heavily in geneware (and drugs).

I'm relatively certain the way to do this is with Cyberlimbs and crap stats and use magic for initiative.  Either Adrenaline surge and 'ware to cope with the stun or Drugs+Detox spell.  Pretty sure. 

Presuming your GM lets you actually use Cyberlimb stats for limits/movement/ect.  Table/GM dependent on what Limbs you use for what stats and what skills, several threads floating around. 

9 Agility Limbs are reasonably priced.  49,500 each.  .7 Essence each w/ Biocomp.  Potentially another 8 Armor for 24,000.  Still have lots of capacity for whatever.  If your table requires you to get a Torso and stick stats in the Torso this probably doesn't work out.  (Torso and Skulls are shells and not actually Limbs so I question the RAW of putting Str/Ag upgrades in the Skull and Torso, YMMV wildly.) 

The other way I can see it working is good ole Muscle Replacement 2, Reaction Enhancers 1, Narco, and Kamikaze/Betameth, (plus Detox) but you'll need decent organic stats for that.  Your 'ware budget drops dramatically and you're hitting the Augmentation cap on Agility, Str, Reaction.  15+3d6 initiative and multiple capped stats seems like it would be pretty good.   

[FST_Gemstar]

I like E Attributes Dwarves for a strength burnout. E Stats will cover your bases, and you can get your cyberlimbs to agility 9 + Strength 11. You can max Intuition/Reaction. Buy Agility/Logic to 2 with Karma i(if you want or it is required of you) and have other stats at 3. Everything else gets ware' boosted. Alternatively, you can pump body/willpower for a more drug-fueled character (Dwarves are good at this).

[Whiskeyjack]

Yeah my whole point of inquiry is based around the fact hat I don't want to use cyberlimbs. If I wanted to do that I think Pap Renvala's thread would have given me the info I needed.

What I'm wanting to do is use PT and probably biocomp to build a largely bio adept (taking the standard useful cyber stuff like datajack+retinal smartlink and yeah prolly WR + REA Enhancers) and using powers on Improved Ability, Combat Sense, etc.