[HobDobson]

It's not a role issue, it's exclusively a motivation/goal/plan problem. It's a constant feeling that his feelings and hangups are the guidelines we have to follow.

That sounds familiar, including the part where people who don't want to play secondary/background characters find themselves playing well-statted NPCs.

We (gob hacker, me, doc) want to solve the triad problem, PP just continues to talk about building this false company ...

Would it be worth your while to discuss these storyline arcs with the doc's player and the GM? For example, just because PP is building his dream company, that does not mean the triad stops tending to its business. Actions, including ignoring the team's individual needs, have consequences.


Pulling back from the storyline itself:

A lot of the table just give in to his fits and let him run amok, myself included. I haven't been interested in what's going on with the game in the last 3 months. Usually when I get sick of trying I put a character on the shelf and pick up some genetic troll/orc muscle and just go "sure, whatever you want. I roll X"

I could well be wrong, but it sounds like no one's getting to do what they want. Building on what other folks had said, take some time out to discuss what stories, settings, roles, each person would like to play (and which ones they do NOT want) and look for something that would let everyone shine a bit.

As far as individual roles go, it sounds to me like you all really need to shake things up a bit. Maybe put the "generic troll/orc muscle" on the shelf, and leave it there no matter how much anyone pouts about it. Instead play against your usual type, something that doesn't entirely fit in, or that makes you uncomfortable yourself. Ever play a petite wagemage who moonlights as a secure data courier for her uncle who's got a family thing going - and is built around that? If PP still needs that generic musclehead, it's a good thing she knows someone who knows someone ...   

[Coyote]

An interesting idea would be to allow the PP to start working on his dream company, then have a Triad come in and sabotage the site, because the company is associated with runners who are on their hit list. Then the PP may get the idea that in order to follow his goals, he would NEED to solve your Triad issues first.

[Beta]

What would your ideal outcome be, given access to a geeky genie who will grant you three gaming related wishes or some other unlikely solution to the situation.  I think that you just wish this guy would be more flexible about what others want, but I’m not sure if you are even there anymore, or if you’ve just had it with him and aren’t sure of the best way to make the break happen.

[AwesomenessDog]

I would like to point out that "sabotaging" his business isn't sabotaging his fun if you are the gm and your are showing him that he can't have his cake and eat it too in SR or your character is directly against something as establishment as a little corporation.

[Critias]

Have you tried just talking things over OOC?  Not just you and the GM, or you and one other player, or whatever, but as a group?  See what sort of compromise can be reached, which you can then find a way to handwave into existence IC?

Don't try to solve an OOC problem IC.  It just makes things worse.

[adzling]

Yeah I think Critias is right on this one, OOC anti-social behaviour can't be solved IC.

[Quatar]

Yeah I think Critias is right on this one, OOC anti-social behaviour can't be solved IC.

I absolutely agree with that!

Also, while it is absolutely true that PP can't dictate what your character is to do, has to like, etc., the same is true in reverse as well! Remember that!
"You can't build your company, because my neo-anarchist is against it!" is the same as "You can't be an anarchist, because that's against my capitalist worldview!".

And sabotaging his plans? That's not only petty, but a sure way to disaster!
Just imagine for a moment that we would not know this thread here, and PP comes here and tells the story of how he build up his company, spend money and karma on it, it was the fulfillment of his character's life dream, just to have that other player intentionally burn it down. We'd be back to "That's a jerk move of the other guy! Leave the table" or "That other guy seems to only play the neo-anarchist as an excuse to be a dick". There's always two sides to a coin.

I'm not saying the GM can't invoke consequences. Of course he can, that's his job. I'm specifically talking about other players. But even if the GM let's the company fall, I don't think it solves the underlying problem, and that frankly seems to be a lack of respect of PP towards his fellow players, to let them play their characters as they like.

So what's the best approach? As the quote states, you can't solve OOC problems with IC actions. Doesn't work. You either need to solve this issue on an OOC level, because it is primarily a problem with the player, not the character, or one of you needs to leave the table. How to solve it though, well I don't really know that, I'm afraid, but there were a few tips given already, which might work.

[Sipowitz]

Hmmm,

Are you friends outside of the game or just 'gaming friends'?  I ask because you keep mentioning them as (PP and PP Friend).  Kinda implies to me that those two are friends all the time and you are only at the table.

I went through something similar last month.  After many "hey can we talk about this" I walked away.   I game for enjoyment in this hobby, if I am not enjoying it why am I there?

[Darkhorse]

i have a friend i used to play online with. we had Gametable and played D&D. i tried to get them interested in shadowrun to try something different, and we ended up with me playing a Samurai  GMPC, my friend played a mage, and our other friend played an adept. the first run we did, everyone had a good time. there were a few wacky moments:

1. friend 2 threw a stun grenade into an air duct because he heard a noise of something moving inside it. it was a poor insane scientist, but they didnt know that. well, grenade rules being what they were, the stun grenade damage rebounded over and over inside a closed space and shockwaved the poor scientist into a pile of goo. when they opened the duct and saw what was inside, friend 2 says, "im going to pull the body out." he effectively dragged 150 lbs of beef stew out all over himself, which i took great and gleeful delight in explaining in detail.

2. friend 2 tries to bank a grenade (theme developing here) off 3 walls in the world's best grenade-billiards game to make it land right where he wanted, and got mad when i told him his roll wasnt good enough to do it.

3. motorcycle chase with a gang nearly resulting in street-pizza runner when he almost failed his drive check while shooting. much hilarity was had by all.

they loved the first run, but completely bagged the 2nd, because it involved some detective legwork to track down where a dragon came from who was in the hospital (Dragon Hunt module). the moment there was anything besides "dungeon crawl through the facility" friend 1 got bored and hated it. even though friend 2 loves shadowrun, we never played again because friend 1 hates the game and setting, and has a lot of influence over friend 2. friend 1 is also the reason we dont do sci-fi, horror theme, or anything but fantasy games.

when my computer died, we could not game with them, so i joined a local group playing D&D, pathfinder, Cthulhu, and now shadowrun. to be honest, im not in a big hurry to go back online to game. far too much drama and not-fun, and i missed having a physical table, friends in town, and miniatures and dice to roll.

so, yes, i know exactly how you feel. perhaps it is time to sit the group down and try to work out whether it is feasible to continue or not. you need to understand that your feelings matter. your PP friend needs to understand that there are more people at the table than him, and a group needs to share. he can build his fake company thing, but it doesnt have to be the focus of your shadowrun game. it can happen behind the scenes. your GM needs to understand that.

so, intervention time.... i hope it works out all around.

[AwesomenessDog]

It might be a good idea to remind people of the kind of game Shadowrun is, what each party is trying to do, and feasibility of what is going on. Company building (at least legitimate company building) is probably the most anti-Shadowrun thing I could think of: you are the secret hand, not the figure head. If the game is about doing whatever in a truely sandbox mode, then what he is doing isn't invalid, but it is certainly not what any of the creators envisioned a game revolving around for two reasons. Shadowrun is supposed to be about doing company dirty work to scrape together a living, owning a company is not scraping together a living, it is quite the opposite because you at one point had the money to start the company. There are also no rules for this and the closest rules are for laundering fenced goods; if the PP wanted to make this a "business to end all business", then that would be good for both of you, but he still can't dictate what you can and cannot do.

Once again, there is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to do what he wants in the game, rules are just a framework, but he is certainly not looking in the right place and it doesn't sound like he is sharing the table on this. Is he proposing doing all this company stuff instead of running at all?

[Reaver]

I've seen the "own a company" approach done in SR a few times. (My high karma group went down this path). It requires a LOT of handwavium by a GM (as pointed out, SR is not a company building game). And can be the source of great fun; when the entire table is behind the idea...

Instead of doing runs for an other company, you do runs to advance your business. Say you own a Cookie store, so now you hit up other Cookie stores, stealing their receipes and sabotaging their stocks, in the hopes of driving the cookie business to your company.


But that is not the point here, the point is it seems a select few are controlling everything to the point of detracting the fun of others....

To which some good advice was given above.