[belaran]

Hi all,

I've a little question regarding searching for a specific spirit. I'll give some context below, but first of all, bear in mind here that I'm looking for universe consistency, not crunch. I just want to know if allowing something like that is not breaking some consistency in the universe in terms of how magic and spirits works.

OK, here the context. My runners are investigating the death of an other shadowrunners team, which members got killed just after an ops against some Aztechnology secret base. Point being here, one of them asked "hey, as the runner had a mage, maybe we can ask the spirits she conjured for the run if they know anything..."

So, now the question is, could an other mage basically ask spirits or do a special conjuring to get access to the spirit. Something like "I invoked the little fireball she used to invoke often". (note that, the mage of my runners actually knew the dead mage, so at least he may have knowledge of her "usual spirits" if any).

So that's option 1.

Also, could the mage invoke a set of spirits and ask'em to do some "spirit legwork" and find out which spirits got invoked ? At first glance, it's sound OKish, but then you think "wait a minute, corps could do that too..." - meaning that no more shadowrunners will actually uses spirit, for fear to be tracked by them afterward...

So that's option 2.

Any hints / advises on this ? Should I allow option 1, but not 2 ? Or neither ? Did you stumble upon a piece of flull (or crunch) that would specifically disallow this ?

[Reaver]

Its not out of the realm of possibility.
If you go back to the spirit section in Street Grimoire, they have more info on spirits and their 'general knowledge base'.

Past history in SR also helps back this up to some degree.... as previous editions speculated that spirits MAY (GM call) have a collective memory of events they witnessed while summoned.

(Note however, Legally in the UCAS, spirits can not be called on for evidence, statements, or any other legal proceedings..... so they are only of limited use to police)

Your issues are going to be 3 fold.
1: Is it actually the same spirit? (GM call, as spirits are still a huge grey area 60 years after the awakening)

2: How do you Identify said spirit? Auras are unique to everything, and a mage can remember auras he has assensed, but with no real way to record said aura after the fact. (There is the silvernitrate camera.... but did he have it with him last time he saw this mage with a spirit AND took a picture?) How does he share this aura knowledge with those ge wants to do the searching?

3: Spirits are NOT bound to tell the truth They can lie if it suits them And while there IS a way to track down individual spirits, its a very messy proceedure requiring an Astral metaplanes trip, AND requires you to know the Spirits true name. (Which is NOT Spirit Flunky #2, incase you were wondering ). Again, this is found in Street Grimoire.


But, as with anything this far 'off the beaten path' expect a lot of GM handwaving ;P

[farothel]

If I were the GM, I would allow it, but it wouldn't be easy.  It would involve, as Reaver said, an excursion to the correct metaplane, surviving while you're there and then tracking down the spirit.  And if the other spirits and the spirit you're looking for are willing to help you depends on how your player's mage has been treating their spirits and also how the mage they are investigating has been treating her spirits.  It might also involve doing a very high force spirit a favour when you're back in your meat body.

That would be my way of handling it.  I'm not sure if it's all completely correct in the rules (I don't know much about 5th edition), but that way you can get something out of it, including a follow-up run if you go with the favour thing.

[belaran]

Thanks, you are all confirming what I though. I did read the Spirit section of Street Grimoire, and the overall description led me to the same conclusion. While not (theorically) impossible, it's hardly going to be either false information, provided by devious spirit, than anything solid.

If I were the GM, I would allow it, but it wouldn't be easy.  It would involve, as Reaver said, an excursion to the correct metaplane, surviving while you're there and then tracking down the spirit.

Yep, metaplanar quest was also the first I thought about.

That being said, let me share what my plans are now. The mage of the team (a NPC) will have spend a full day invoking spirits, but also travelling and discussing with nearby spirits to try to figure out if one of them was part of the run, or if they have "heard" (or met) an other spirits, with no great success.

However, he would have found out that one of her spirit (the dead mage) has become a Free Spirit at her death, and he might be interested in a bargain, against, of course, some karma. If they agree, he will try to negociate the team retrieve an object imprinted with its true name (while not sharing that with the group) against its info (and to be sure the mage does not point'em out why this object is so important to it, it will kill the mage, before offering the deal).

[Sendaz]

Alternatively, why not make the spirit in question the mage's former ally spirit?

It would be likely the dead mage had items related to it's original summoning, perhaps even a thesis or such giving them enough clues to allow the team to embark on an attempt to contact this newly freed spirit, who may be open to negotiation for what it knows.  So there is room for both physical and spiritual legwork to go around.

Again it could lie, but depending on how it was treated by the dead mage, it may be interested in exacting some payback as well even if indirectly by letting the team do it.