[Sterling]

True, except for commanding voice, which is what we're talking about here.

"Commanding Voice (10dicepool vs.  Willpower + Intuition)"

Wouldn't Commanding Voice get the bonus from the Command specialization of Leadership, so it would be 12 dice?

Remember that Leadership is only effective when the subject accepts and acknowledges you, even temporarily, as their superior.  The Command specialisation is used when rolling against targets to see if they will accept you, and you cannot use it against a target that you have already failed against. (P. 142 Core SR5 2nd printing)

In your House Rules, sure.  Unless you can also cite a source as I did?

[adzling]

Just read the adept power commanding voice, it's all there.

[Coyote]

True, except for commanding voice, which is what we're talking about here.

"Commanding Voice (10dicepool vs.  Willpower + Intuition)"

Wouldn't Commanding Voice get the bonus from the Command specialization of Leadership, so it would be 12 dice?

Remember that Leadership is only effective when the subject accepts and acknowledges you, even temporarily, as their superior.  The Command specialisation is used when rolling against targets to see if they will accept you, and you cannot use it against a target that you have already failed against. (P. 142 Core SR5 2nd printing)

In your House Rules, sure.  Unless you can also cite a source as I did?

You cited a source that seems irrelevant. Your source is for a normal use of the Leadership power, while the Adept Power of Commanding Voice uses a Leadership test, but is pretty clear that it can be used against random people and perhaps even enemies, where Leadership certainly could not be used. So, saying that Leadership does not allow you to command enemies is irrelevant, when the discussion is about using Commanding Voice, which does allow you to command enemies.

[Tarislar]

Ok,

I really enjoy role play, I get into character and try to get the DM Role playing whenever possible.  For Me RPGs are competitive improv.
I want to make a character that tries to talk his way out of everything by any means necessary.  He can fight, but not well, hes a little sickly.
I'm justifying the madness of this by giving the character an addiction, drugs make ya do weird things.

I want to make a character that uses every route possible to avoid combat.  Lots of charisma with some adept powers, Mind manipulation & Detection spells, bioware, Skill specializations, random hodge podge complete chaotic min max.

I only have a core book to go by. 
I'm trying to work out my priorities and wanted some opinions.
I know I want elf, and Mystic Adept, but cant figure out the order.

I'm making this for a game i just joined and am not as spot on with 5e as I'd like to be.
Might I humbly request the help of the gathered Runners and Johnsons?

Its not exactly everything you asked for, but I feel everyone needs the ability to handle combat for that time that you can do nothing to avoid it.


A: Attributes
B: Elf
C: Skills
D: Adept
E: Resources

B3, A5, R5, S1, W5, L3, I5, C8
Es6, Eg3, M6, Itv10+1d


Influence Group-2
Con-6  (FastTalk+2)
Perception-6  (Hearing+2)
Pistols-6  (Semi-Auto+2)
Sneaking-6  (Urban+2)


6 Power Points
2.5 - Improved Reflexes-2 
1.0 - Authoritative Tone-2   (St.Grim-Errata?)
0.5 - Combat Sense-1 
0.5 - Magic Sense   (St.Grim)
0.5 - Motion Sense   (St.Grim)
0.5 - Melanin Control   (St.Grim)
0.25 - Agility Boost-1
0.25 - Facial Sculpt-1   (St.Grim)
0.0 - Traceless Walk
0.0 - Voice Control-1


Spending 50 Karma  (25 Negatives)
10-Cash $20K
10-Strength-2
8-Friends in High Places
7-Catlike
5-Mentor Spirit (Deception)
5-Trust Fund (Medium)
4-Contacts  (28 Total)
1-Remainder
10-Creature of Comfort (Medium)
10-Dayjob
5-SINner

[Sterling]

True, except for commanding voice, which is what we're talking about here.

"Commanding Voice (10dicepool vs.  Willpower + Intuition)"

Wouldn't Commanding Voice get the bonus from the Command specialization of Leadership, so it would be 12 dice?

Remember that Leadership is only effective when the subject accepts and acknowledges you, even temporarily, as their superior.  The Command specialisation is used when rolling against targets to see if they will accept you, and you cannot use it against a target that you have already failed against. (P. 142 Core SR5 2nd printing)

In your House Rules, sure.  Unless you can also cite a source as I did?

You cited a source that seems irrelevant. Your source is for a normal use of the Leadership power, while the Adept Power of Commanding Voice uses a Leadership test, but is pretty clear that it can be used against random people and perhaps even enemies, where Leadership certainly could not be used. So, saying that Leadership does not allow you to command enemies is irrelevant, when the discussion is about using Commanding Voice, which does allow you to command enemies.

My point is simply that the Command use for Leadership is clearly defined on p. 142 as being used to persuade enemies that you're their leader, and so the Command Specialisation would seem to apply to that use of Leadership only, not when using Commanding Voice.

Yes, I could have spelled that out clearer.  My fault.

In short, the calculation by adzling was correct, and I believe RAW Coyote was mistaken in correcting it.

[adzling]

ah ok that comment makes a bit more sense Sterling ;-)

How you calculate your dice pool for the adept power Commanding Voice is a good question.

Hero Lab treats it as a pure Leadership + Charisma test, no specializations, no affect from other adept social power such as Auth. Tone or Cool Resolve and no affect from Tailored Pheromones.

Of course Hero Lab gets some things wrong so you can't rely upon Hero Lab as a pure rules reference.

Regardless the above approach mostly works as long as you don't use the Social Modifiers table.
As soon as you start using those modifiers with the reduced/ minimal dice pool Commanding Voice becomes mostly useless.

Our table just lets you use your entire Leadership dice pool with relevant Social Modifiers.

This works well because the Social Modifiers table confers hefty penalties for attempting stuff that is harmful to the target.

The rules for Commanding Voice don't spell it out either way, so YMMV.

Regarding Command speciality in particular it seems the most appropriate specialization for Commanding Voice as you are primarily commanding enemies with it.

anyhoo it's your game you get to choose how you implement it at your table!

[Coyote]

In general, I think that we cannot be limited by what the main rulebook says about how to use skills and their specializations, because there are some skills/specializations that are not described (Con (Seduction), off the top of my head). Does this mean that the Seduction specialization of Con has no in-game purpose? No, it means that any uses of specializations in the rulebook are given there as examples of how to use that skill/specialization, but that you are allowed to rule that other skill tests for that skill may still utilize the specialization even if the exact action that requires the skill test is not given as an example of that specialization in the core rule book.

So, Commanding Voice uses a Leadership skill check. It uses it in a different manner than is given in the rulebook, but clearly that cannot be the only way to use Leadership or else some skills that are not thoroughly explained would be pretty much useless. Thus, there is no reason to think that it's not treated as a normal skill check for Leadership, including all modifiers (both character-based and situation-based), and therefore it could be subject to a specialization. Whether the GM prefers to create a new specialization for Adept Powers, or to use the Command specialization, is kind of a house decision. But whether the check is subject to modifications and specializations seems to me to be pretty clear: it is.