[Herr Brackhaus]

Zweiblumen
Fortunately, it doesn't need to be left unattended; if it's slaved to the deck it'll use the decks Sleaze rating and SpitFires Logic Rating for running silent, and he could even have it running on the Public Grid for an automatic -2 to spot.

In my opinion the Matrix was way more solid in past editions because it was much more detailed. Of course, that made it much more complex and a PITA to learn, but at least it was easy to relate to. Whenever I play in a new game there's inevitably some interpretation on behalf of the GM or other players where the Matrix is concerned that shows me just how differently it can be interpreted, both from a settings perspective and from a rules perspective.

Ultimately, the game is about having fun, and GMs have all the power to come up with mechanics that aren't covered explicitly. In this case, for example, it's easy enough to use existing tests as an abstraction of "does the opposition spot the drone either in the Matrix or in the meat, and if so, what do they do about it?".


Malevolence
For what it's worth, I appreciated your calm and rational post on the SG topic. Tempers have been running pretty hot in there, and yours was a refreshing voice of reason.

Anyway, copy times! Technically, RAW states that an Edit File action can be used to edit, copy, or delete a file. It doesn't specify timeframe, so one can extrapolate that it either takes just the Complex Action that the action is described as, or it is up to the GM. Going strictly by the written rule I'd say the former appplies, as the WMI 2.5 protocols certainly has streamlined a lot of processes that used to take minutes, if not hours.

Settings wise I'd say 30 minutes is too long for a simple download; in all of the published material for 5th I can't recall a single instance where a Matrix copy job is listed as taking more than a Complex Action. Finding the file in the first place is an entirely different matter, though.

Gone are the days of having to worry about modem speeds, storage capacity, and mrgapulses of data needing to be heisted.

[Malevolence]

You could also just plop Wrapper on it and make it look like, well, a candy wrapper. Without a trace icon action, they can't locate it more accurately than to say it is within 100 meters, so it'd be easy to assume that it was just blown up against the outside of the building. Or they could spend the time to use Matrix Perception on it, but to reasonably expect someone to do that when there are (by the fluff in the book) thousands of matrix icons within 100m of practically anything, would be unrealistic. The flip side of that, is that it then makes it too easy to hide in plain sight, and the bad guys could use the same tactic. So that does have to be mitigated somehow, and again I think we are back to not allowing a constant stream of MP checks against the same target every action pass or combat turn. Like maybe it should just be a single test, or one per shift change, or if something substantial has changed.


Anyway, IC is up. Just the catching up of Jaeger and the offer to retire to the team warehouse with the crew.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Considering the neighbourhood, there probably aren't that many icons within 100m. I mean, look at the place; 100 meters is squarely within the property borders in every direction, and they're likely to know which devices are theirs. I really detest the way SR5 handles (or manages not to, more accurately) basic Matrix questions like "how do you find icons"), but in this case it seems pretty straight forward that a Matrix specialist of theirs could just filter out any icon owned by X, where X is the corporation or individual in charge of the place.

I definitely agree on the issue of "if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander"; any tactic we use to hide can just as easily be used by our opposition, so any decision we make has to be weighed in that light. If we make it too hard or too easy to get spotted, the same applies to spotting our opponents. I think the simple solution here is the better; besides, we have something our opponents (often) do not, namely Edge.

Since Jaeger lives in a world of emotion I'm going to roll an Assensing test and a Judge Intentions test to see if he recognizes that Mercer isn't telling the whole truth. Even if he discovers that Mercer is holding back he's still in, it might just set a different tone; besides, Mercer should know better than to try to hide something from someone who's life revolves around knowledge and who spends every waking moment in the Astral, seeing people's emotions laid bare in front of him

Even though the plan is to go back to their safehouse he won't drop the sustained spells; he'll make one more pass since some time has now passed just to check one last time to see if anything has changed.

Assensing (Aura Reading) 6 (+2) + Intuition 4 - Sustaining 4 = 8 dice
Assensing (Mercer and crew): 8d6t5 1
The mojo in this area must be causing interference Still, it's the one and only hit I needed in order to get basic emotional input from him.

Judge Intentions is straight up Charisma 3 + Intuition 4, so 7 dice.
Judge Intentions (Mercer): 7d6t5 3

Malevolence, feel free to roll the opposed test of Mercer's Willpower + Charisma if you prefer. Like I said, just looking to get a feel for whether or not Jaeger picks up on the fact that Mercer is holding something back or not.

ETA: I've just noticed Mercer has a pretty rocking Charisma and Willpower, so I've posted assuming that Jaeger gets no net hits on the Judge Intentions test and only has Mercer's emotions to go off of.

[rednblack]

I got absolutely slammed yesterday, and didn't get to catch up really with any weekend posting that was done.  My next IC is mostly written, but I also need to get some other stuff up, so bear with me guys.

Re: 30 minute download: a program like this isn't just a matter of copying a document, map, etc. but of changing the way a drone functions, updating its firmware, etc.  We're keeping that.  Transmitting data only takes a Complex Action, and the drone can do that no problem at any interval between 15-45 minutes.  A dedicated matrix security specialist can and should be doing Matrix Perception checks, but there are other concerns for such a person as well, to say nothing of restroom/lunch/smoke/leg stretch breaks that will need to be taken during a 12 hour shift.  Also, reference was made ICly of the skeleton crew, so Spitfire will know that there's a risk, but that it is fairly reduced over say sneaking a drone into a corp compound that would have a Spider, etc.

[Herr Brackhaus]

And that's exactly what I was saying about interpreting the Matrix rules differently

I'm fine with the 30 minute time, rednblack, but I do want to point out that loading an autosoft does not require firmware updates, it's all software. So technically, the process of getting the program for the Matrix might take a while, but copying it from deck to drone should by RAW only take a complex action. This is similar to how you could theoretically download a whole SAP database with the same single Complex Action. One of those things that just doesn't make a lot of sense in 5th Edition's Matrix.

Again, no issue with the time, but settings wise most of that time would be finding the program, not uploading it to the drone and enabling the new functionality.

ETA:
And just to add that no explanation is needed from my end about posting schedules. This game has been progressing faster than most PbPs I've ever been part of, so good job everyone!

[Zweiblumen]

1) The 30 min still works for me as I said before.
2) I had a long post about how I felt this impacted other rules but whenever I read it, it came across as whiney and rules-lawyer-y.  HB does a much better job of describing these things without sounding like a whiney little bitch
3) I really want to find a way to describe my thoughts on the massive impact I feel this ruling has on the way Rigging works without sounding like a whiney little bitch, but I'm not doing a good job of it. 

[Malevolence]

Resist Judge Intentions [Cha 6 + Wil 7]: 13d6t5 2
It looks like he really is feeling guilty about holding back, and it shows. Sorry if you have to change your post overmuch.


As for the number of icons, from the fluff, every piece of clothing, every bit of product packaging, every piece of every object, has an RFID tag, and thus a matrix presence. So, somewhere like here, the dumpster alone would have hundreds of RFID tags populating the matrix. Now, one assumes that proper protocol would be to fit each trash receptacle with a Tag Eraser/Destroyer so that properly disposed of items don't continue to clog the matrix, but that doesn't change the fate of litter, with which any industrial area would be literally, pardon the pun, littered. So unless the guards are walking around with trash grabbers, there'd be quite a few icons not owned by the peopel occupying the warehouse.


I'm perfectly fine with slightly changing canon so that icons are somewhat less ubiquitous than the fluff describes (since I agree that it is a little ridiculous to put RFIDs in absolutely everything, no matter how disposable), but even so, the Wrapper trick can work well. A slightly more complex scenario could have it changing what it appears as every so often so that it could be written off as stuff passing by on the streets at the extreme range of that 100m. But this all gets into the weeds of 5E matrix, and so is best left to GM fiat.

[rednblack]

1) The 30 min still works for me as I said before.
2) I had a long post about how I felt this impacted other rules but whenever I read it, it came across as whiney and rules-lawyer-y.  HB does a much better job of describing these things without sounding like a whiney little bitch
3) I really want to find a way to describe my thoughts on the massive impact I feel this ruling has on the way Rigging works without sounding like a whiney little bitch, but I'm not doing a good job of it. 

Zwei, if the 30 min is affecting your enjoyment of the game we'll ditch it, as it isn't going to affect my enjoyment of the game either way.  My thinking is that most programs and add-ons of this kind are done either during char creation or downtime, but I will be honest that I haven't given much thought to how it would impact other facets of the game.  I'm certainly not married to the idea enough to stick with it over a player's hand-wringing (which I do not mean in a disparaging sense at all). 

So, let's roll with 1CT and move along.  Still working on IC and work craziness, but I hope to have it up today/tonight.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Woot, got my new chair in today, just finished ASSembling it. I had a 2k dollar chair from Europe that I got cheap through the company, but that one fits my wife much better so now I'm parked in a DXRacer "gaming chair". I have to say, it feels pretty nice.

Zweiblumen
Yeah, I'd agree that that kind of interval might set a troublesome precedent further down the line. And I'm glad I don't come across as a whiny little bitch

That being said, I'd encourage you to voice you thoughts. I mean, we're all pretty open and accomodating here, as shown by rednblacks latest post, and at least for me it helps me as a GM to hear what other players (and GMs) think about certain rules.


Malevolence
Nice! Didn't realize you had Willpower 7, so that's even more oomph than I expected. 1 hit on judge intentions isn't much of a difference, so I'll just add in a line about how Erik confirms his reading of Mercer's emotional state with something like body language or inflection or some such.

Good point about trash and the like. Maybe that could be explained in-setting by wear and tear? I.e. it gets discarded and eventually runs out of juice; we can assume that everything in Shadowrun has the capability to charge via wireless induction, and if they ever were to sit in a static or spam zone for long enough to run out they might not turn back on.

And those kinds of things would be relatively static (no pun intended), so it should be simple enough to filter out all the garbage. That's a neat idea, though, no matter how you look at it; use Wrapper, make the drone look like something mundane that people, even security personnel, would filter out just by virtue of there being so much of it. That presents a couple of viable scenarios to my mind.

1. Not running silently, spotter using AR: moderate likelihood of being spotted, as most people filter out all icons that are non-threatening (i.e. pairs of underwear, plastic bags, gum wrappers, etc) but keep potentially threatening icons (weapons, armor, commlinks/decks/rcc, and vehicles). However, a random security guard could still be walking around without any filters and suddenly wonder why there's a McHughs Soy-Burger wrapper up on the wall according to his AR feed, but none that he can see with his actual eyes
2. Not running silently, spotter using VR: very low to low likelihood of being spotted, as above except a decker/spider would have to decide to specifically look at every piece of trash icon as he'd have no relative physical location of each icon, just that they're in the nearby vicinity
3. Running silently, spotter using AR: low to moderate likelihood of being spotted, as most AR only users will not have particularly good Matrix Perception rolls
4. Running silently, spotter using VR: moderate to high likelihood of being spotted, as most dedicated VR users will have good Matrix Perception pools and once they know an icon is nearby running silently will almost certainly investigate

So, unless the opposition has dedicated, onsite Matrix support I'd say our best chance is to just use Wrapper and leave it not running silently; in all four of the above cases there's always a chance a guard will just happen to spot an infiltrating drone (and I personally don't think size modifiers are nearly enough as it should be really hard to find a micro-sized drone), but of the four scenarios 1 and 2 likely gives the best odds against detection via the Matrix.


rednblack
Cool as cool, man; work has to come first.

[Malevolence]

Real quick as this moves back to the base of operations and into the next day - do we want to have Nori hold off on publishing or are we comfortable letting those cards fall where they may?

[Tecumseh]

Achak would vote for holding back, but she is Mercer's contact, not his.

I had an inquiry out about Elijah's fate too.

Traveling on business today so I might not have a chance to post ICly.

[rednblack]

@Tec, updated IC to reflect a message from Elijah.

[Herr Brackhaus]

And Jaeger wouldn't sleep in a low-rent safehouse unless he had to, so he'd likely just meet up at the location in the morning.

Also, there's mention of a big ork in the latest IC post, but I thought there were a human, a dwarf, and a troll outside, and two humans and eight orks on the inside?

[Zweiblumen]

Jaeger could crash in the Van  if he wants (it's Luxury accommodations).

And yes, 7 orks are infected, one is a big mo-fo that Achak fought to a stalemate.

[Tecumseh]

I'm trying to decide whether Achak would think that it is strange that Duncan is reaching out to both Achak and Mercer about the Manet, as Mercer technically has no financial interest in the painting.

Similarly, Achak will likely try to test 3L1 in order to ascertain his identity. Achak is suspicious that both Duncan and Elijah are reaching out for a meet simultaneously. It is socially awkward to do this to Duncan (or his secretary) so I'll try to think of something clever.

I will IC this (eventually), but Achak will want to create an ID challenge to avoid situations like this in the future, at least among the immediate team. The idea that this is only verbal and there is no written record of it so that if someone's commlink is hacked then there is no record for the hacker to access.

Challenge: "Sparrow"
Response if Under Duress: "Ruby"
Response if Normal: "Everest"

What software did we get and how much did we end up spending?