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High armor PC's

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aimlessfreak

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« Reply #210 on: <02-20-11/1845:17> »
All the armor in the world can't stop a little narcojet

Nor a long fall and a short stop.  I can remember in a Cyberpunk game a bunch of heavily armored solos getting on an elevator going up 27 stories and then the GM's NPC netrunner hacking it.  The NPC stopped the elevator between floors then dropped it injuring everybody inside.  It was great.  I do not care how much armor you have, plummeting 270 feet will mess up a PC no matter how much armor he has on.

now thats just evil.......i like it
But I didn't know he was a DRAGON!

freddieflatline

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« Reply #211 on: <02-21-11/2037:48> »
All the armor in the world can't stop a little narcojet

Nor a long fall and a short stop.  I can remember in a Cyberpunk game a bunch of heavily armored solos getting on an elevator going up 27 stories and then the GM's NPC netrunner hacking it.  The NPC stopped the elevator between floors then dropped it injuring everybody inside.  It was great.  I do not care how much armor you have, plummeting 270 feet will mess up a PC no matter how much armor he has on.

now thats just evil.......i like it

Yeah it was evil but funny as hell especially the way my GM described it.  I was laughing my butt off because my character took the stairs.  All 32 of them.  It was a long haul but I was one of only 2 PCs not to be injured. 

aimlessfreak

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« Reply #212 on: <02-21-11/2153:12> »
All the armor in the world can't stop a little narcojet

Nor a long fall and a short stop.  I can remember in a Cyberpunk game a bunch of heavily armored solos getting on an elevator going up 27 stories and then the GM's NPC netrunner hacking it.  The NPC stopped the elevator between floors then dropped it injuring everybody inside.  It was great.  I do not care how much armor you have, plummeting 270 feet will mess up a PC no matter how much armor he has on.

now thats just evil.......i like it

Yeah it was evil but funny as hell especially the way my GM described it.  I was laughing my butt off because my character took the stairs.  All 32 of them.  It was a long haul but I was one of only 2 PCs not to be injured.

Yet another reason to stay active and take the stairs
But I didn't know he was a DRAGON!

Charybdis

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« Reply #213 on: <02-21-11/2252:05> »
Nor a long fall and a short stop.  I can remember in a Cyberpunk game a bunch of heavily armored solos getting on an elevator going up 27 stories and then the GM's NPC netrunner hacking it.  The NPC stopped the elevator between floors then dropped it injuring everybody inside.  It was great.  I do not care how much armor you have, plummeting 270 feet will mess up a PC no matter how much armor he has on.
Interesting mathematical scenario for my Gun-fu physad... a dude who has made it his job to leap regularly from skyscraper balconies....

Falling Distance in this scenario = 270' = 82.3m
8 ranks of Freefall lowers falling distance to 66.3m (82.3-16)
Therefore damage to be resisted = 66
Physical damage track before deadly overflow = 10+3 boxes, so damage that can be taken (while surviving) = 53 boxes (66-13)

Impact armour of 12, adds 6 dice to resistance test
Gymnastics skill of 5 ranks +6 (Improved skill) adds 11 dice to resistance test
Body of 4 adds 4 dice
Edge adds 4 dice (rerolling 6's)....

So, 25dice (rerolling 6's) to resist 53 boxes of damage....  ???

I think we're pucked  :-[

Gravity's a law that this phys-ad still needs to follow, apparently!
'Too much is never enough'

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Sichr

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« Reply #214 on: <02-23-11/1147:28> »
Gravity's a law that this phys-ad still needs to follow, apparently!

or FALL
OOOOOOOOW....
!!!SPLASH!!!!

It is not the fall that kills, but the impact on the ground... :D

CanRay

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« Reply #215 on: <02-23-11/1150:26> »
I found that DMSO/Narcojet or Neurostun gas grenades are great for high armor targets...  The PC that's built around being a tank gives me the dirtiest looks...
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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Mäx

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« Reply #216 on: <02-23-11/1359:23> »
I found that DMSO/Narcojet or Neurostun gas grenades are great for high armor targets...  The PC that's built around being a tank gives me the dirtiest looks...
Works somewhat fine, up until they start wearing gasmask while on the run.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

CanRay

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« Reply #217 on: <02-23-11/1406:15> »
DMSO works on skin contact.  They'd need a full environmental seal to protect against that.

And that stuff is not something you can walk down anywhere with and not get noticed.  And, frankly, it just makes sense for security guards that don't have a right to have lethal grenades to have a low-lethality option like Narcojet/Neruostun.

I've also ruled that anyone who critically glitches on a resist roll against those drugs either has just found out, or has just developed, an allergy to it, and are potentially going to die.  It's come up only once.
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The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #218 on: <02-24-11/0905:23> »
Seems reasonable.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Man Who Walks At Night

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« Reply #219 on: <03-02-11/0653:13> »
Or - if its a problem for your campaign to have players who are highly armoure - you could simply tell them not to? :P

I have read alot of posts on these forums about GM's having trouble with high powered chars due to various game mechanics, and it always leaves me a little puzzled.

Personally in my 25 years of gamemastering (in various systems, but also SR since 1st ed) I never really had a problem with this - I follow a few simple guidelines.

1) Discuss the type of campaign I'm running with my players, mainly, pointing out that while combat is a part of the game, then its a mean to achieve a goal, not a goal in itself.

2) Focus on roleplaying aspects and challenges not involving combat, or involving combat in less direct ways (as some pointed out, there is alot of reasons why heavy armour/weapons is just not always an option)

3) Point out that while killing people is sometimes part of the job, then runners are generally not killers and psychopats who gets a kick out of killing people. Remember its a roleplaying game, not a tactical combat boardgame. Runners generally kill to survive, not to have fun. The sec guards are not evil monsters from a fantasy rpg, they are real people with families, kids, wifes etc.

4) Rules are guidelines, and GM's dosn't have to follow them, this is something I see alot of GM's do "wrong" in my opinion, they try to justify everything they do based on rules - don't, just be fair, its your job as a GM to direct a good story that everyone enjoys, its not your job to spend your time worrying about how to deal with players who abuse (and yes, in my opinion it IS abuse) the rules to max out out their survival potential.

5) Use the world/setting of the game to make players understand that they cannot walk around as highly amoured killing machines without serious consequences. Shadowrunners are meant to be discrete, not make the news regularly due to mass killing sprees or causing wide spread panic from walking down the street with an assault cannon on a gyro-mount. Corps tolerate shadowrunners because its simply to costly to hunt them down (remember, there is no money in revenge) but if a team constantly kills alot of sec guards or causes serious collateral damage on their runs, its not far fetched to imagine a few of the corps getting hit might think its more costly NOT to stop them from repeating it.


Maybe Im just blessed with having players who generally don't go all out except on rare occassions, or maybe they trust me to keep things fair and fun despite my constant "cheating" and dice fudging.

I think it boils down to respecting each other - remember players and gamemasters are not enemies, roleplaying is not about the players vs. the gm - if something troubles you, talk with the players, sort it out - don't resort to silly instant killing chars or sending overpowered opposition against them in a way that defies logic, some runs the opposition won't be a challenge to the players, and thats perfectly fine, they might be able to kill the 10 mundane non-cybered corp sec guards at a facility without blinking, but there IS and SHOULD be other challenges in a run than the combat side of things. Mix it up.
-Frag you and the hog you rode in on.

Morg

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« Reply #220 on: <03-02-11/1043:31> »
@ Man Who Walks At NIght - The main problem with high armor PCs is that rarely dose the GM wish to have a confrontation with a player over game mechanics i.e. GM says "please don't do it" PC says "but it said I can in the rules" other times it is because the GM doesn't  wish to limit the PC's.

Some times it is just difficult to tell them "NO!" but I have an aluminum hint stick just to make sure ;D

side note... you are blessed to have such understanding players. Sometimes I end up having chemistry and ballistics arguments with my players when the rules don't support what they want. I have never as a GM liked saying "No" unless I had a better reason then "game balance" besides game balance is a ratio if the super duper armor 52/50 PC is getting you down then have some of that armor reduce because of SOTA

HazardGM

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« Reply #221 on: <03-02-11/1151:01> »
lol so, sorry if this has been said, I only read the first 9 pages *gasp* and the amount of off topic made my head spin ;) lol.

lots of great idea's here but my tank is a mage, none of the magic I throw at him works because of sheilding. He always has 10+ dice in it as he uses assault rifles and sustained spells. Acid sounds good but the Armor spell is on top, would the acid get through? Can you call shot to negate armor when he has a 10 force armor spell, full suit form-fitted body armor, and a full suit a security armor (all of which cover head to toe)? Oh BTW he's always invisible and silenced (indirect illusions are only resisted if the observer has a reason to suspect something is there), with an elemental scouting for astral targets that can give him away.

I'm having a hard time hurting him with out slaughtering the others

CanRay

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« Reply #222 on: <03-02-11/1152:00> »
If the problem can't be solved by a firearm, you need a bigger firearm.

If that doesn't work, well, hit them.  With a dump truck full of sand.  Repeat as necessary.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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HazardGM

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« Reply #223 on: <03-02-11/1159:00> »
LOL he flies too, but if you can't see or hear him how do you target him. Oh and, lol, if you do manage to resist his invisiblity he has Ruthinium +12 on his security armor

CanRay

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« Reply #224 on: <03-02-11/1201:00> »
*Blinks*

Autoshotguns.  Lots of them.  With armor-defeating solid tungsten buckshot.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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