[rednblack]

So, I've seen the previous threads on building cyberzombies here and elsewhere on the forums, but I'm still a little unclear on the crunch.  I don't have the 4e book Augmentations, which makes things a bit more complicated.  My understanding is that CZs have Hardened Armor equal to their negative Essence and a Background Count on all incoming spells thrown their direction, but I'm unsure how that's calculated. 

As far as Essence goes, how negative is too negative?  I'm also under the impression that their negative essence influences their stats in some way, but I'm unsure how that's calculated as well.

I'm not looking for direct quotes from the book, but if anyone could provide me with any roundabout ways for building CZs that have worked for your games in 5e, I'd be most grateful. 

[Herr Brackhaus]

Going off of memory so may not be entirely accurate, but in SR4 you definitely needed;
1. Delta level facilities and staff, as well as a completely sterile environment for the duration of the procedure
2. A group of magicians, at least one of whom had mastered both Corruption and Invoking magic.
3. The procedure itself, which required a whole slew of steps to be completed roughly as follows:
3a Create formula and prepare the subject as a vessel
3b. Complete a metaplanar quest using a great form spirit as a guide (I think Astral Gateway was used, and the whole ritual was largely up to the GM to decide)
3c. Surgeries; minimum of an invoked memory stimulator (can't remember the essence and nuyen cost, would have to check later), but likely going to be a ton and likely all delta
3d. The Cleansing metamagic must be used to keep the background count in check
PROFIT!

Well, not quite. I believe the subject has to be kept in stasis for one week per Essence point below zero that's lost, and upon awakening there was some sort of test (Composure, maybe?) with the Binding skill of the ritual magic leader added as a positive dice pool modifier. I couldn't tell you the threshold, but I want to say it was relatively high, at least 1 per point of Essence below zero that's been lost. Succeed and you get a cyberzombie with some mental issues, fail and you get nothing. Interestingly, I seem to remember that a glitch lead to a seemingly successful result but something went horribly wrong, and on a critical glitch the zombie would go into a homicidal rage and kill everything in sight.

Rough details:
The Invoked Memory Stimulator is mostly like a flashback device; when triggered it would flood the subject with powerful emotions and memories, essentially keeping the metahuman part of the cyberzombie anchored to the near-dead body.

Essence; I don't remember any limits, but the ritual gets prohibitively more difficult the more Essence is lost so that's sort of a limit in and of itself.

Significant lifestyle cost increase (duh; it's expensive as heck to keep one of these things alive )
Astral Hazing (Force 4, should be able to use the rules from 5th directly)
Monthly Willpower+Intuition (1) test to avoid losing their mind; failure essentially means you get more and more negative qualities or loose attribute points
Dual Natured, I think with a Magic attribute of 1
Attribute boosts; each full point of Essence below zero is added to attribute ratings (maximums, I think, not current)
Immunity to normal weapons; double negative Essence, so a zombie with -6 Essence would have 12 hardened armor for example. This might need to be adjusted for SR5 where AV is much higher

I'd have to reference the book to make sure I didn't miss anything, but I think those are the highlights. Ultimately, though, you can make it whatever you want; as long as the creature has negative Essence, a shit-ton of augs, and undergoes (and survives) a rare and challenging ritual performed while the difficult and expensive surgeries are performed, you should be good. Unless this is happening to one of your players, in which case; good luck

[Reaver]

Will double check my books later, by there is also a 'lifespan' to cyberzombies based off how little essence they have too...

The lower the essence, the faster they succumb to cancer. So while a -18 essence CZ is a force to reckon with, its operational time is limited (weeks?).

Will post more later...

[Herr Brackhaus]

I don't think that's cyberzombies, Reaver; at least not by SR4 rules, where they are effectively immune to aging as long as they keep up their meds. If they go off their meds that's a different story, of course.

Oh, and for what it's worth, rednblack; the fiction part of the Cutting Edge chapter of Augmentation is worth the price of the whole book by itself. Chilling stuff, nightmare fuel for GMs and players both...

[Reaver]

Ok, after looking through Augmentation, these are the advantages and disadvantages of a Cyber Zombie:


Advantages:
Immunity to age effects,

Immunity to Essence drain

Immunity to Fear effects(?) <does not come right out and state this, but implies it many times>

Generates a background of 4 within 1 meter for every point of negative Essence. (Thus at -3 essence, the BG covers an area of 3 meters radius centered on the CZ)

Racial attribute maximums increased by value of negative essence. (thus at -2 essence all attributes maximums increase by 2)

Gain Immunity to Normal weapons at a rating equal to negative essence (usual rounding applies) <Thus a -2 essence has ItNW 2, or 2 points of hardened armor in 5e)

Gains a Magic rating of 1. This Can not be increased by Karma, spirit pact, or any other means. If already awakened, Magic is reduced to 1 forever. If the individual has resonance, that is FOREVER gone, and replaced with a magic rating 1 (again, forever)

Disadvantages:
Maximum negative Essence value is -6

NEEDS a Invoked memory Stimulator (0.2 ess, 50k cost, Avail: 24)

Background count of 4 ***remember this affects helpful spells as well!

Dual natured (so can be attacked from the astral)

Madness and despair: with out the ImS, they just stop eating and sleeping and caring for themselves. (and thus from dehydration, starvation, sleep deprevation! so, 3 days*, 21 days*, 10 days*)

Every month a Willpower + Intuition (1) test must be made. The thresh hold increases by 1 per week with out meds, and for every year of service. A failed roll results in: 5 BP of negative qualities, OR a decrease of a single stat (both the current value, and the Racial max. So a Human with 5 STR would go to 4 STR and the new racial max would now be 5 in STR)   

Lifestyle increase of $2000/month for the Drug cocktail that keeps them alive. Availability of 24 of a 1 month supply.

If magic rating is ever reduced to 0, they instantly die. (they do not suffer magic loss from implantation however).

Cybermancy (the making of a Cyber zombie) places strain on the mind of the individual during the process, so much so that the body must be placed in stasis for a period of 1 week + 1 day per negative essence (so -3 Ess = an extra 3 days). When coming out of stasis, the individual must make a Intuition + Willpower Test equal to 3 + value of negative essence. (so a -6 essence CZ needs to pass a W+I (9) test) However the Binding skill of the lead mage in the ritual is added as a modifier. If the test succeeds, the individual lives, gains 10 BP of negative qualities. If at least a  single success is rolled, the individual lives, but gains 10 BP of negative qualities PLUS an additional 10 BP of negative qualities PER essence point below zero (thus a -6 CZ ends up with a total of 70 BP of negative qualities!!!). If the test is a failure (no successes) the individual instantly dies. On a glitch, something horrible and subtle went wrong and something was brought back from the depths of the metaplanes, and has tainted the individual (queue dramatic music and lightning flashes)


*****
All found on pages 156-158 Augmentation
****
Now how do you transfer this from 4e to 5e? I'll leave that to you

[rednblack]

@Herr Brackhaus, thanks for the info and the reading recommendation.  I really want to get a hold of the new critters book, but I guess I need to add Augmentations to my list as well.

@Reaver, this is great.  Thanks, chummer!  The Magic rating was a bit of a shock to me.  That's really interesting.  I like the idea of adding Negative Qualities a lot.  A quick look shows that in 4e the Ambidextrous Quality is worth 5bp, and in 5e the same Quality costs 5 karma.  That's probably analogous enough for me, but would anyone suggest tweaking those numbers at all?

It doesn't look like anything listed would actually affect incoming spells if they were cast outside of the BC.  Am I correct in this assumption, or do BCs affect spells once they "enter" them?  For example, a cyberzombie has an Essence of -4, creating a -16 BC in a 4 meter diameter around it.  A PC mage is 6 meters out and overcasts a Force 8 Manabolt.  Does the BC reduce the affects of the spell?  Does it matter if the PC mage casts Ball Lightning instead?

Would it make sense to have the number of Negative Qualities purchased be affected by the number of successes rolled on the INT + WIL + Binding Skill test?  For example, the -4 Essence cyberzombie comes out of stasis and rolls 5 successes against the 7 success Threshold.  Should the CZ suffer 50 points of Negative Qualities, or 30?

Thanks again for the input, everyone.  This is really helpful.

[Reaver]

Np.
But something to clear up first. (And this is probably my hack job of posting the info. I'll never copy/paste that much cause the original writers deserve to have their work supported through book sales, )

The background count is a constant 4. That part never changes. What does change is the area covered by the background count, which is a function of their Essence.
In 5e, this would mean targeting the CZ with a spell, the caster loses 4 dice on their test.
The area is important because it could apply the -4DP to the CZ's allies if they are close enough... (see Street Grimoire).

Now, the way I handle this (and other GMs may handle it differently) is that IF your spell at any time intersects with a BG, you lose the dice. So trying to just 'catch' the cyberzombie in radi of a fireball spell still ends up costing the caster 4 dice. (This is because of my K.I.S.S. approach to gaming and rules. As I said others my disagree)


Build points was the standard method of creation in 4e, and they went back to a piority system in 5e, but for the most part the costs of qualities (negative and positive) is roughly the same. Only one is in build points, the other in karma. (There is a couple that increased in price, but not many)

Strickly speaking, if the number of successes is less then the required for complete success (using your example, they NEED 7+) then they failed. BUT they did roll more then one so the CZ functions, but gets 50 karma worth of negative qualities.

Cyberzombies are/can be insanely powerful. But are also insanely unstable! They often end up so detached to live and emotionless that they make Vulcans seem like drama queens (AKA negative qualities). And have been known to snap at a moments notice under the right triggers, which varies from CZ to CZ (again, negative qualities)

[rednblack]

Cool.  Thanks for the clarification and the reasonings.  I think I agree with you on the Negative Quality thing for sure.  Time to start building. >:)