[Bushw4cker]

Had a few character ideas that I thought would be fun with Adiposis quality, which I didn't realize you could take without having to take Changeling Quality. (Thanks Kuirem!!) and zeththeadeptork posted about wanting help making a Troll Adept, well here you go.. SUMO TROLL! Sum to 10... 4. Attributes, 4 Race, 1 Skills, 1 Magic, 0 Resources

Might use character as NPC in future.

Any thoughts, comments or suggestions are always appreciated.

The Heaviest Sumo Wrestler (Real World) Weighs 720lbs, the Average Male weighs 180lbs, so that is 4x the average weight. The average Troll weighs 300kg, so 4x this would be equal to 2645lbs. So my question is this, Do Trolls have the same range as Humans when it comes to weight, or are you never going to see a 1 Ton Troll?

THanks )

SHADOWRUN 5TH EDITION CHARACTER SHEET (ADEPT)                                                                                                                                                      
Name: Dai Kubo "Neko"   Metatype: Troll     Ethnicity: Asian    Nationality: Japanese                                                                                                                                                      
Sex: ♂     Age: 24    Weight: 865 kgs     Height: 2.7 m     Eye Color: Brown     Hair Color: Black                                                                                                                                                      

ATTRIBUTES (24, 15 K)                                 
BOD      9      WIL      5      WLK      9   
AGI      5(9)      LOG      1      RUN      18   
REA      5      INT      3      SPNT      (+.5)   
STR      9      CHA      3      COM      8   
ESS      6      EDGE      3      JUD      6   
MAG      6      LIFT      18      MEM      4   
Init: 8 + 1D6   Edge: OOO                                 
                                 
PHY      11      MEN      4      SOC      6   
                                 
ACTIVE SKILLS (22,                         RTG      DP   
Etiquette                        1      4   
Intimidation                        1      4   
Animal Handling                        1      4   
Sneaking                        6      16   
 (Urban +2)                              18   
Perception                        3      6   
 (Visual +2)                              8   
Unarmed Combat                        6      14   
 (Sumo Wrestling +2)                              16   
Gymnastics                        1      9   

KNOWLEDGE SKILLS                        RTG      DP   
Sports                        1      5   
 (Sumo Wrestling +2)                              5   
Trid Shows                        1      5   
 ("Reality" +2)                              5   
Sushi                        1      5   
                                 
LANGUAGE SKILLS                        RTG      DP   
Japanese                        N      -   
English                        3      6   

POSITIVE QUALITIES                              RTG   
Adrenaline Surge                              -   
Tough as Nails (Stun)                              -   
Catlike                              -   
                                 
NEGATIVE QUALITIES (+1 K)                              RTG   
Distinctive Style                              -   
SINner (National, Japan)                              -   
Big Regret                              -   
Adiposis                              -   
                                 
BIG REGRET                                 
Sat on Koborokuru, Killed him                                 
                                 
ADEPT POWERS                              RTG   
Improved Agility                              4   
Strength Boost                              4   
Mystic Armor                              2   

ARMOR (1,000¥)                               RTG   
Dermal Armor                              1   
Mystic Armor                              2   
o Armor Jacket                              12   
                                 
ID                  TYPE            RTG   
Dai                  Real SIN            -   
______________                  Fake SIN            ___   
                                 
LIFESTYLE (4,000¥)                                 
Low Lifestyle (4,000¥ a Month)                                 
                                 
THROW PERSON (SUMO)                                 
After successful Subdue Act or                                 
As Interupt Action (-10 Int.) after                                  
successfull block, Roll Unarmed                                 
opposed as normal.  If Strength +                                 
Net Hits > Physical Limit, Thrown #                                 
Meters = Net Hits (STR - Opp BOD)                                 
Damage = Net Hits. Opponent is                                 
Prone after Successful Throw                                 
                                 
NOTES                                 
Starting Nuyen: 3D6 x 60 + 2500¥                                  
3 Karma Spent on Resources         

GEAR (1,000¥)                                 
o Renraku Sensei (DR 3)                                 
o Running Silent (-2 DP Matrix Actions)                                 

CONTACTS (2 K)                  TYPE                     METATYPE               LOCATION                        CON      LOY      NOTES                                                            
Smiley                  Fixer                     Ork               Downtown Seattle                        5      2      CAS Accent,Infectious Tusky Smile, Former Shadowrunner                                                            
Sana                  Talismonger                     Elf               Downtown Seattle                        2      2      Cat Mentor Spirit                                                            
                                                                                                                                                      
VEHICLE (3,500¥)                     HAND         SPEED         ACCL      BODY         ARMOR         STR      PLT      SEN         SEATS               CONDITION MONITOR                              MATRIX CM                     
Echo Motors Zip                     3  2         3         1      6         4         -      1      2         1 (Meta Adj.)               OOO OOO OOO OOO OOO                              OOO OOO OOO                     
                     

[Bushw4cker]

Here is my Excel Character Sheet, which I think is way better than spoiler.

[kyoto kid]

...in Sum to Ten, I thought a magic of 6 for an adept cost 3.  1 would only give him a magic of 2 (2 PPs)

[Bushw4cker]

...in Sum to Ten, I thought a magic of 6 for an adept cost 3.  1 would only give him a magic of 2 (2 PPs)

Karmagen! 800 Points. Way better way to make characters imho.

So how about the actual character? any comments?

[Kuirem]

The concept is funny but the character feels really weak as a runner.

The big problem is that he can't fight properly : with an Initiative between 9 and 14 he might not get a second Combat Turn. If you want him to be a fighter he needs more Initiative. Have you seen a Sumo Combat? Those guy can be surprisingly fast for their size so it still fit in his lore.

The second problem is that he has no ranged skill. Pretty much everyone in the 6th world know how to use a gun, so even if he trained all his life as a Sumo he can have some ranged skill (I recommend Automatics or Throwing).

Etiquette, Intimidation and Animal Handling with 3 dice are pretty much pointless, he will struggle to even succeed a 'Normal' threshold (2).

Improved Ability suck up all your PP and is a bit of a trap imo. Attribute Boost cost only 0.25 PP and even at rating 1 you throw 7 dice (with Magic 6) giving you +2 AGI fairly reliably, if you have a high magic 1 level is enough. Even better if you reduce your Magic from 6 to 5 you saves 30 Karma, invest those in Nuyen for 60 000 Nuyen and you can take Muscle Toner 2 (you need to add 4k) and you still have 0.60 essence to invest into other stuff without losing more magic (Muscle Augmentation/Synaptic Booster?). With this trick you free 2.75 PP (if you pick AGI Boost ) that you can reinvest somewhere else (Improved Reflexes 2 for example).

That's assuming you use Karmagen but even in Sum to Ten it holds true but it can be trickier to find the money and you will have to settle for Muscle Toner 1 and buy other stuff later to fill the leftover essence.

[Tecumseh]

This is an aside to the question about the weight of trolls.

Back in the early editions, there was a fan-made supplement that looked at the weights of metaspecies relative to their heights and asked how much the metatypes and metavariants should weigh, based on biomechanics and basic mathematical proportions. Long story short, trolls should be 500kg not 300kg. It also includes fun guidelines of how much weight to add for bone lacing, cyberlimb armor, etc. I've used it a lot over the years, whenever I've been spending too much attention to detail on fictional matters instead of real life.

[Bushw4cker]

This is an aside to the question about the weight of trolls.

Back in the early editions, there was a fan-made supplement that looked at the weights of metaspecies relative to their heights and asked how much the metatypes and metavariants should weigh, based on biomechanics and basic mathematical proportions. Long story short, trolls should be 500kg not 300kg. It also includes fun guidelines of how much weight to add for bone lacing, cyberlimb armor, etc. I've used it a lot over the years, whenever I've been spending too much attention to detail on fictional matters instead of real life.

That is pretty cool, thanks for the link. Always thought Trolls were a bit underweight.   Guess my 825 kg Troll doesn't seem that absurd after all. Maker's me wonder if the Throw Maneuver should be rewritten for Dwarves... like x3 if you're throwing Dwarf.

[Bushw4cker]

The concept is funny but the character feels really weak as a runner.

The big problem is that he can't fight properly : with an Initiative between 9 and 14 he might not get a second Combat Turn. If you want him to be a fighter he needs more Initiative. Have you seen a Sumo Combat? Those guy can be surprisingly fast for their size so it still fit in his lore.

The second problem is that he has no ranged skill. Pretty much everyone in the 6th world know how to use a gun, so even if he trained all his life as a Sumo he can have some ranged skill (I recommend Automatics or Throwing).

Etiquette, Intimidation and Animal Handling with 3 dice are pretty much pointless, he will struggle to even succeed a 'Normal' threshold (2).

Improved Ability suck up all your PP and is a bit of a trap imo. Attribute Boost cost only 0.25 PP and even at rating 1 you throw 7 dice (with Magic 6) giving you +2 AGI fairly reliably, if you have a high magic 1 level is enough. Even better if you reduce your Magic from 6 to 5 you saves 30 Karma, invest those in Nuyen for 60 000 Nuyen and you can take Muscle Toner 2 (you need to add 4k) and you still have 0.60 essence to invest into other stuff without losing more magic (Muscle Augmentation/Synaptic Booster?). With this trick you free 2.75 PP (if you pick AGI Boost ) that you can reinvest somewhere else (Improved Reflexes 2 for example).

That's assuming you use Karmagen but even in Sum to Ten it holds true but it can be trickier to find the money and you will have to settle for Muscle Toner 1 and buy other stuff later to fill the leftover essence.

Thanks for the Reply.

Did you see this guys Sneaking, he is a @#$#ing Ninja! , he will be behind the Bad Guys, taking them out with his Sumo Skills, before they even realize what is happening.

"Do you feel that?..Feels like an Earthquake... Bob? Hey!! Mmmmppffff."

Might be right about ranged, but just don't feel it fits character. Only possibility is Throwing.

Only Problem with Attribute Boost is that it takes a Simple Action to use, Melee Combat is a Complex Action. One of this characters biggest advantages is, with Adrenaline Boost, Character always gets to go first. This really helps this Paticular Character more than normal because he's a melee guy, and he not usually going to be as Fast as most cybered or adept opposition. Being able to cover 18 meters right away and attack is reason I took the Quality. Having 4 extra Dice to Attack right away, there is better chance to take opponent out of fight before they can even fight back.

6 Karma, thought some social ability was better than nothing, otherwise defaulting to Charisma..

You are right about Cyberware, could use Karma more efficiently to get better Stats.  Maybe I just have personal bias against Adepts and Ware, or I have seen way too many of them, I just personally dislike giving adept any Ware, unless it really fits Character concept. There are a few advantages though to No Ware. Easier to Heal with Magic. Can always get Ware, and at a higher grade than is available at character creation, later.

I

[Kuirem]

You mention Sum to 10 in your first post but you build your troll with Karmagen right? Because given how specialized your character is I think it would be easier to build him with Sum to Ten or Priority. Especially since Trolls suck a lot of Karma when you are maximizing their STR and BOD.

A - Metatype; B - Attributes; D - Adept; C - Skills; E - Resources will fit right in. You will have to sacrifice some Attributes (probably Charisma and maybe a bit of reaction) but you will get enough Skills to cover Perception, Sneaking, Unarmed Combat at 6 and some leftover for Etiquette and a Ranged option at 3 + specialization. Also 2 points into Athletics group will do good to your character to exploit his STR for some Sprinting.

For ranged as I said everyone know how to use a gun but if you feel that it really does not fit your character you can ditch it but you will be in trouble when things go wrong and you have to cover 50+ meters with your pitiful movement speed. Throwing work well with STR character but Automatics is good too to exploit the extra Recoil Compensation.

Don't forget that it is not rare to fight more than 1 opponent, so even if you take one down you now have 3+ guys pointing their gun at the biggest and more threatening target : you. If you have more Initiative you might be able to take down an other one. Actually I mentionned Improved Reflexes to rise your Initiative but with your high BOD and WIL Adrenaline Boost is probably better, with 14 dice to soak the Drain you can take it to level 4 without worry and get a nifty +8 Initiative for only 1 PP.

It is true that Attribute Boost use a simple action but if you use STR boost you can't melee attack anyway so might as well use AGI boost. You have a good point though so maybe go for Improved AGI Rating 1 or 2 and AGI Boost so you have the best of both world.

Completely understand your point about Cyberware, I was mentioning it because especially with Karmagen it is often the best way to build an Adept. If you aren't going for it it is one more reason to use Priority instead.

[Thanael]

Too bad that Adiposis is only available as a SURGE meta genetic quality.  Iirc into the shadows featured an obese decker with a sweat gland problem.

See also the fat human street samurai hread

[Bushw4cker]

Too bad that Adiposis is only available as a SURGE meta genetic quality.  Iirc into the shadows featured an obese decker with a sweat gland problem.

See also the fat human street samurai hread

You can take it as regular Negative Quality.

[Thanael]

I was under the impression you can only take it via SURGe.

[Kuirem]

Run Faster, page 119 :

While these qualities are intended to be the dark side of SURGE, they can also be taken by characters looking for a little extra flavor from their character’s background

[Shadowjack]

Looks like a really fun character, Bush!

[kyoto kid]

...in Sum to Ten, I thought a magic of 6 for an adept cost 3.  1 would only give him a magic of 2 (2 PPs)

Karmagen! 800 Points. Way better way to make characters imho.

So how about the actual character? any comments?

...I was just going by  the OP where it says:

SUMO TROLL! Sum to 10... 4. Attributes, 4 Race, 1 Skills, 1 Magic, 0 Resources

Did you change the build type since?  I often find characters are weaker with the Karma system as your Magic Attribute, type of awakened character. and your metatype all need to be purchased.  You also don't get bonus points for Contacts or Knowledge Skills.  I built my gunslinger Bushido Cowgirl adept KK off the standard Priority system and while she started with no WF It didn't take long for her to become pretty tough (and that is with the Missions restrictions).

I do like the concept of a mountain of a Troll Sumo Wrestler, but yes more suited for an NPC than a PC (and as an NPC you don't necessarily need to adhere to the starting character values, pump them up a bit, make him say, a grade 2 initiate and give him 2 levels of Improved Strength) 

The 1D6 of initiative is troublesome as it means he would have difficulty performing an interrupt action like Full Defence (-10 initiative).  He only has 8 dice to dodge ranged weapons (INT + REA) which means if someone fires a 6 round burst his way he then only has 3 dice to roll against their attack pool. Reducing an opponent's hits is better than having to soak damage because it means they won't step the DV up as much.  I would give him at least 4 ranks in Combat sense. This also allows him a free perception test to detect a possible ambush as well as would add 4 dice to his defence.

As he's pretty badass already and doesn't have any initiative augmentation, I'd consider combat drugs. Cranking up on Kamikaze would give him +1 to body + 1 to Agility +2 to Strength (I'd drop that Increased strength power as it only applies to dice pools anyway), + 1 to Willpower + 2 to Physical Limit as well as +2D6 initiative (giving him a total of 3D6). Being a Troll with a natural 9 body and 5 Willpower, he has a enough dice (14) to shake off the addiction test just buying hits.  Pharma grade (x 2 cost) would reduce the addiction threshold by 1. Now if he had to go Full Defence, he would have enough initiative, have 17 dice (which is much better than 8 ) and it lasts the full combat turn.

This way too you could also reduce the Agility boost to 2 (8 dice with his magic which would yield at least 2 hits, remember you cannot go above +4 to any attribute anyway).  Keep in mind that the rating of the attribute Boost is the threshold that has to be rolled against for drain.

If you don't want him to resort to guns, thrown weapons would probably be the best as bows now do a set damage per rating. Basically the best bow you can get is a rating 10 that does 12P, and arrows can get expensive .  Throwing an Urban Tribe Tomahawk (yeah not a "ninja" type  weapon but appropriate for a troll) he would have a base of 13P/-1AP when cranked up.

BTW, I do like his Big Regret.