[belaran]

Hi all,

Unless I've missed something in either the core rulebook and/or Rigger 5, i did not find anything on how to spot a mini or micro drone. So granted, they are as big as a bug, so spotting them using Perception test is more/less impossible (or would require at least a (Perception + Intuition)[5]). But what about other means, especially using Sensor or Matrix Perception ?

Let's take a concrete example: someone secures a location by deploying a dozen of Horizon Flying Eye to patrol around it. If a character uses the Sensor array of its vehicule, can he just spot'em with a (Perception + Intuition)[Sensor] ?

IMHO, I would add a threshold for this, but maybe I missed a mechanic somewhere giving some idea on how to proceed.

Now, next question, can someone spot those drones using Matrix Perception ? Obvsiouly, those drones would be running silent, but would still need to run with some wireless active (to feed back info to the rigger). So, within a 100m range, on could do the usual matrix perception (Computer + Logic)[DP] to try to spot their icons... But it does sounds a bit too easy, doesn't it ?

I would fix those issue by simply adding a high threshod to both test, but I'm wondering if I'm not simply overlooking an existing piece of crunch, here...

Thank !






 

[Jack_Spade]

Three ways:

Visual: As you said, very small objects, but not impossible - especially if you have magnification and visual enhancement active
Sensors: Radio signal scanners would be the easiest way to spot them, but motion sensors and the like will work too.
Matrix: Even if they run silent you have a good chance of spotting their icons

[belaran]

Hi Jack,

Thanks for the reply, and agreed - however is there any defined mechanics being that ? For the visual part, I'm guessing it's up to GM (make sense). For the Sensor, i'm wondering if there is not some rule, somewhere about that, but maybe it is also up to the GM.

For the matrix, I agree, you can spot them fairly easily with Matrix Perception, but does the drones requires to fly wireless ? I would guess so to be able to send back the telemetry, but I also no there is some, non matrixly active, RFID tag, so... maybe there is also a way (in the rules) for a drone to fly offline ?

[Herr Brackhaus]

Mechanically speaking, spotting something with a sensor is still a Perception test just like spotting something with the naked eye is. There are specific rules for using sensors to target objects, see the Sensor Attacks section starting on page 184.

Keep in mind that Radio Signal Scanners have a maximum range of 20 meters (page 446; Sensor Function table). Also, a drone can run without it's wireless radio on, making it undetectable by a Radio Signal Scanner, though this means the drone has to operate entirely autonomously.

If running the drone with an active Matrix connection in Running Silent mode, you'd be best off slaving it to a commlink with the Sleaze module or a deck with a high Sleaze score. Spotting a drone running silently is laughably easy trough the Matrix unless slaved to a device with a Sleaze attribute, as it would only defend with the Logic of it's operator or, if operating autonomously, it's dogbrain (i.e. Rating of the Pilot Program).

[Jack_Spade]

Well, of course you can have it shut of wireless and act autonomously, but that is not a great strategy to get up to date information about whatever you are trying to guard.

The point of Radio Signal sensors is that they won't be penalized by the size of the drone. If you happen to fight against a sleaze monster you are - of course - pretty shit out of luck unless you came prepared with a souped up agent cluster running teamwork perception checks to support your efforts (R6 Agent supported by a bunch of Secretary commlinks should do the trick with it's dice pool of 18)

BTW: Perception mods are on p. 135 Core:

Hidden/Micro/Silent means a Threshold of 4

Relevant modifiers for your spotter's dp would be:
Object/sound not in immediate vicinity –2
Perceiver has active enhancements + (Rating)

So all in all not that hard to do if your character has a good (5+) Intuition and max ranks in Perception (Visual) + glasses with vision enhancement for a total of 16 dice

[Sphinx]

For the matrix, I agree, you can spot them fairly easily with Matrix Perception, but does the drones requires to fly wireless ? I would guess so to be able to send back the telemetry, but I also no there is some, non matrixly active, RFID tag, so... maybe there is also a way (in the rules) for a drone to fly offline ?

I'd allow a drone to operate wirelessly using only its Pilot + autosoft ratings, but it would go completely dark while doing so. The rigger would have no oversight or control. You would need to give the drone clear instructions, starting with "deactivate wireless functions" and ending with "reactivate wireless."

[k_night]

Don't forget to do a stealth sstealth check with the drone. 
Any spy-drone should have the stealth autosoft. 

[Herr Brackhaus]

The Stealth autosoft is almost entirely useless; it's better to just use the Threshold 4 test for a Micro-Drone instead of rolling an opposed test where the drone likely has 6 to 8 dice as a maximum unless you spend ludicrous amounts of money on highly illegal pilot programs.

[k_night]

As far as i can see the autosoft doesnt negate the threshold   

Edit: If the test does negate the treshold, runners shouldnt take stealth either unless the pool is higher then 12

[Herr Brackhaus]

Nor does it add to it, so how do you treat what effectively becomes an opposed success test?

[k_night]

you do the opposed test and the searcher must beat your stealth test by the threshold.

[Coyote]

you do the opposed test and the searcher must beat your stealth test by the threshold.

This is the way I do it. Normal opposed tests function as if they have an implicit threshold of 1, so raising the threshold just follows that concept.

[Herr Brackhaus]

That's a fair house rule; however, since this is posted in the Rules and Such forum, I think it's worth pointing out that that IS a house rule. By RAW, there are Success Tests and then there are Opposed Tests; spotting a micro-sized object would be the former, while spotting a micro-sized object that is actively trying to hide would be the latter.

I also think it's worth pointing out that we do the same as k_night and Coyote at my table also, because otherwise spotting a drone that's running Stealth is just too easy.

[k_night]

Yeah and nobody would take the stealth skill, cause being hidden (threshold 4) is better than trying to hide (AGI + Stealth (Physical)).

[Herr Brackhaus]

Well, being hidden and being Micro-sized is a Threshold 4. In many cases, a troll with a pink mohawk who's wielding a minigun is about as obvious as a neon sign (threshold 1)