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I need help building a free drake that is balanced.

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GunDrake

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« on: <09-13-16/2137:51> »
I want to play a golden oriental drake/elf that is a mystic adept shaman that is a magical medic that can fight and summon spirit allies. My group is using the 800 point buy system. Whenever I try to make a character I spend too much points on stats and skills I don't have enough karma for gear and I have a very few points for spells. Can someone help me make a karma budget for race, attributes, skills, and everything else that I will need? 

Dwagonzhan

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« Reply #1 on: <09-13-16/2158:44> »
That is a wire-thin tight rope of karma. Drakes aren't Karma cheap at the best of times, and Mystic Adepts are easily the most Karma-hungry archetype in the game after that.
Hmm. I'll mess around with the concept, but others with more experience will likely have better luck.
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GunDrake

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« Reply #2 on: <09-13-16/2209:59> »
My main focus is on spirits then healing magic.

Dwagonzhan

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« Reply #3 on: <09-13-16/2329:50> »
Any preferences on weapons?
Spells can be used in combat just fine without having to specialize in another skill; though guns are pretty cheap after the skill investment and obviously don't cause Drain.

Here's what I have so far:


-STATS
I kept your stats middling to low, outside of Spellcasting and summoning, to be frugal with Karma. (also you're not much good if you go down from Drain after all)
BOD: 3(4)   AGI: 4(5)   REA: 4(7)  STR: 2(4) 
CHA: 6        INT: 3         LOG: 2(3)  WILL: 6
MAGIC: 5 (Power Points: 5)

12 Drain Resist (base) is a must if you're a primary summoner IMO.

-CORE SKILLS: (NOTE: Skills only, Stats and outside bonuses to Diepools NOT included here)
Summoning 5, Spellcasting 5, First Aid 3* [Resuscitation Specialization]

This is the biggest headache of them all. Keeping the Awakened abilities at rating 5 saves a spot of Karma for other things and will be your backbone.
In all likelihood, this is probably where most of your remaining Karma will go. Specializations have a flat 7 Karma cost for +2 Pool, so they can go a long way as long as you pick them carefully.
I personally like Resuscitation here, because it's the one First Aid check you're most likely to use when a run REALLY starts going bad, and Medkits add their rating to your pool directly when Wireless is enabled.

Technically, you can cheap out here and just rely on high grade Medkits running at x2 Rating with Wireless:ON, but this is a COMBAT MEDIC character so it only makes sense to actually know First Aid.
If you also want the Medicine skill consider the specialization 'Magical Care'. Biotech as a skill group is just too pricey starting out IMO.

-GEAR:  (Using availability 12 as limit)
\-Force 3 Power Foci: Bonded (Oh man do you need it)
\-Medkit Rating 6 (If your GM doesn't care about bulk or concealment, then go Rating 6, if they do, Rating 3 is easily concealed.Just remember to have the Medkit run Wireless OFF until you need the bonus.)
\--5 units of Medkit Supplies
\-Armor: Standard Armor Jacket + Helmet (NOTE: I increased the cost by 10% to be flexible as per Drake Armor/Clothing rules, so the total for this basic combination is 1210 Nuyen, not 1100)
\-Fake SIN 4, Mage License 4, Adept License 4 (this last one is questionable, as all the powers taken are Passive)

-SPELLS: Heal, Detox, Manabolt, Armor, Astral Armor
(Manabolt and Astral Armor are so you can defend yourself in Astral space if nothing else; being dual-natured sucks :\)
No Limited Spells, as with a total pool of 13 (unless you take a specialization) you're unlikely to get the hits needed to make it worthwhile.

-ADEPT: Improved Reflexes 3, Astral Perception, Combat Sense I
Pretty standard MysAd 5 kit.
High initiative is key to surviving and (later) thriving in combat.

Combat Sense gives you a spot of extra Defense and a small (very small with your stats) chance of getting to act when surprised. It's something to build on through Qi Sculpting, a Qi Focus, or just regular investment through Initiation. It's a great power for any character IMO.

Finally, Astral Perception because as a Mystic Adept you don't get this for free, AND you're Dual-Natured.
So you definitely want to be able to see into Astral Space for all that nasty stuff that might harass you (slamming face first into a spirit or ward you couldn't see is no fun either...have I mentioned being dual-natured sucks?)

-QUALITIES (?)
DRAKE (Eastern Dragon), Mystic Adept (duh)

DEBT 7: I'm currently using Debt 7 to bootstrap some cash, although this could be changed with other qualities to provide money, this is the most efficient short-term method, and as a MysticAdept you will need Karma far more than Nuyen.

FOCUSED CONCENTRATION 6: Focused Concentration is a very powerful quality and cheapest during character creation. It's much more frugal and flexible than any Sustaining Focus of equivalent Force.
That said, I currently only have two spells proposed that are Sustained: Armor and Astral Armor. So, taking FC6 is a question of Long Term investment. 24 Karma now, 48 Karma later, or never. (or some lesser form of it)

GOING FORWARD: Currently sitting at 68 Karma and 12990 Nuyen remaining
NEED: Lifestyle, Comlink, possible work gear. Shamanic Lodge Materials. Penny pinch the HELL out of this on your remaining equipment to scrape Karma up.

MISSING: Knowledge Skills, Contacts
I don't know what rules your GM is using for Knowledge Skills and Contacts, so I assume Standard Karma Gen. Pick up a Fixer contact or second language as necessary, but don't invest too heavily here for now unless you GM demands it; Karma is at a premium.

Skills is your big limitation currently, but with careful spell selection and Spirit usage you can make up a lot of that difference.
Consider reading up on Talismongering and gathering Reagents; they let you safely boost your spells and more importantly, call Bound Spirits.

Consider Initiation (if your GM permits it at character creation) just to get the Masking metamagic going.
I've played a couple Drakes now and being outed as one through some random chucklehead mage Assensing you is a "great" way to further complicate your life. At least you can make it tougher on them to try.


My best shot as of now.
« Last Edit: <09-14-16/0253:45> by Dwagonzhan »
"You haven't truly lived until you've had a Cortex bomb!" ~Former GM

Kuirem

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« Reply #4 on: <09-14-16/1324:53> »
Drake don't need Astral Perception, all dual natured can interact with the Astral, they don't even receive the -2 dice pool for interacting with the meat world while astrally perceiving.

Mages have the advantage of being able to cover detection, discretion and combat through spells so the easiest way is probably to dump physical attributes and focus on your spells. Consider raising WIL a lot! Maybe even with Exceptional Attribute, WIL is what you use to soak Astral damage so unless your GM has guaranted that he won't attack you too much on that front (he is lying, they all are!!!!) having a good defense there is a good idea, it's also the attribute use to attack if needed so all for the best.

Dwagonzhan

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« Reply #5 on: <09-14-16/1428:11> »
Good catch on the dual-natured beings minutia. I'm honestly trying to learn this system, but there's just way too many things to commit to memory, and finding it all has been a colossal pain.
(Chummer 5 is a big reason I haven't just gone back to SR3; those references save brain cells and hair)
Great news for the Drake at least; one extra Adept power point is always handy.

GunDrake asked for "balanced", so I'm guessing that meant "well-rounded" or "not-min-maxed to hell and back". Here, I respect the concept ahead of the crunch, since it's a request.

Otherwise, I agree about the spells; Spellcasting is arguably the most powerful skill in the game because of its incredible versatility, and this build needs a pillar of strength to really stand on starting out.
(Drakes are an RP choice. They're generally pretty terrible since they cost way too much, come with very dangerous drawbacks, and are still confined by the base-race's augmented limits on attributes even in Dracoform)

As for WIL...I agree in principle, but boosting WIL to 7 via Exceptional Attribute costs another 49 Karma in total. Not terribly affordable right now. ;p
"You haven't truly lived until you've had a Cortex bomb!" ~Former GM

GunDrake

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« Reply #6 on: <09-14-16/1737:51> »
I guess I will try out a drake mage. Can you show me a mostly finished build? For a ranged weapon I want to earn a laser pistol later in game and use it for my main weapon and I will use a pistol when the laser pistol is low on enegy or a mission requires non-lethal ammo. I will also pick a few negative qualities.

Dwagonzhan

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« Reply #7 on: <09-14-16/2334:31> »
To be clear, do you want a Mystic Adept? Or a regular Mage (no Adept powers)? Is the "Combat Medic" thing still part of this character?

Regular pistols can be made into serviceable backups until then. If I pick a specialization, do you have a preference? (I recommend Semi-Auto; other options are Revolvers, Tasers, and Holdouts)
Probably shouldn't spend Karma on Energy Weapons until you actually get that Laser Pistol. Training times and Karma costs are easily managed for the first four skill ranks.
"You haven't truly lived until you've had a Cortex bomb!" ~Former GM

Kuirem

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« Reply #8 on: <09-15-16/0343:43> »
Ok let's see what I can do :

Attributes
BODAGIREASTRCHAINTLOGWILEDGMAG
342 (5)2632526

Adept Power Points : 6
Karma into Nuyen : 20
Nuyen Remaining : 14 435

Skills
  • Influence Group : 4
  • Assensing : 2
  • Binding : 5
  • Counterspelling : 3
  • Pistols (Semi-Automatics) : 3
  • Spellcasting : 5
  • Summoning : 4

Spells
  • Stunbolt : Work pretty much the same as Manaball but deal Physical Damage. Because killing people ain't profesional.
  • Detect Life, Extended : A good replacement to Perception and go through most stuff (except Mana Barrier)
  • Heal : One of the 3 spell that every mage should have
  • Improved Invisibility : To replace Sneaking, second spell that every mage should pick.
  • Manascape : One of the rare way to 'hide' yourself in the Astral, as long as your target don't see you.
  • Levitate : Useful multi-purpose spells to reach hard to access area
  • Physical Barrier : The third spell every mage should have, excellent to get away and stop grenades. You could even use it to create a bridge
  • Mana Barrier : Probably your best defense in the Astral

Adept Powers
  • Improved Reflexes 3 : If you are going Mystic Adept that's probably for this one, Initative is king in combat.
  • Commanding Voice : Combined with some Leadership this spell act like an Influence spell but without leaving trace in the astral.
  • Whatever else : There is still 1.5 PP so pick what you like, there is lots of good options. Traceless Walk might be a good idea given that you have the Wanted quality as a Drake. Attribute Boost AGI and BOD are nice and cheap too.

Gear
I picked the bare minimum so feel free to add on it.

Lifestyle (Low) : 3 Months - 6 000¥
Armor Jacket - 1 000¥
Browning Ultra-Power /w Quick-Draw Holster - 815¥
Ares Light Fire 70 /w Silencer (Ares), Concealed Quick-Draw Holster, Laser Sight - 1 350¥
Fake SIN (Rating 4) /w Fake License (Rating 4) x 3 (Mage, Firearms, Concealed Carry) - 12 400¥
Renraku Sensei - 1 000¥
Dodge Scoot - 3 000¥

There is still 28 Karma for Knowledge and Contact, that's not a lot but you have to make some sacrifice.  There is also 14 435¥ left so you can reduce the karma into nuyen if you have nothing to buy with it to get more contacts/knowledge.

No Qualities picked either (beside Dracoform), try to fill your negative for the +25 Karma. For positive on Mage I'm a fan of Focused Concentration (Rating 4) which pair well with most sustained Health spells (Increase Reflexes, Increase Attribute…), 6 is tempting but will suck all your positive quality karma and some spells can hit you with a pretty hard drain at Force 6. Picking a Mentor Spirit is often a good idea. Bear is a classic for the extra soak dice and the bonus to heal spells but there is also some with bonus to summoning (Alligator, Bat, Boar, Eagle, Sea, Thunderbird), Boar being my favorite for that sweet extra service.

I didn't list the Dracoform bonus for simplicity but the quality is there along with Wanted.

GunDrake

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« Reply #9 on: <09-15-16/1625:17> »
Ok let's see what I can do :

Attributes
BODAGIREASTRCHAINTLOGWILEDGMAG
342 (5)2632526

Adept Power Points : 6
Karma into Nuyen : 20
Nuyen Remaining : 14 435

Skills
  • Influence Group : 4
  • Assensing : 2
  • Binding : 5
  • Counterspelling : 3
  • Pistols (Semi-Automatics) : 3
  • Spellcasting : 5
  • Summoning : 4

Spells
  • Stunbolt : Work pretty much the same as Manaball but deal Physical Damage. Because killing people ain't profesional.
  • Detect Life, Extended : A good replacement to Perception and go through most stuff (except Mana Barrier)
  • Heal : One of the 3 spell that every mage should have
  • Improved Invisibility : To replace Sneaking, second spell that every mage should pick.
  • Manascape : One of the rare way to 'hide' yourself in the Astral, as long as your target don't see you.
  • Levitate : Useful multi-purpose spells to reach hard to access area
  • Physical Barrier : The third spell every mage should have, excellent to get away and stop grenades. You could even use it to create a bridge
  • Mana Barrier : Probably your best defense in the Astral

Adept Powers
  • Improved Reflexes 3 : If you are going Mystic Adept that's probably for this one, Initative is king in combat.
  • Commanding Voice : Combined with some Leadership this spell act like an Influence spell but without leaving trace in the astral.
  • Whatever else : There is still 1.5 PP so pick what you like, there is lots of good options. Traceless Walk might be a good idea given that you have the Wanted quality as a Drake. Attribute Boost AGI and BOD are nice and cheap too.

Gear
I picked the bare minimum so feel free to add on it.

Lifestyle (Low) : 3 Months - 6 000¥
Armor Jacket - 1 000¥
Browning Ultra-Power /w Quick-Draw Holster - 815¥
Ares Light Fire 70 /w Silencer (Ares), Concealed Quick-Draw Holster, Laser Sight - 1 350¥
Fake SIN (Rating 4) /w Fake License (Rating 4) x 3 (Mage, Firearms, Concealed Carry) - 12 400¥
Renraku Sensei - 1 000¥
Dodge Scoot - 3 000¥

There is still 28 Karma for Knowledge and Contact, that's not a lot but you have to make some sacrifice.  There is also 14 435¥ left so you can reduce the karma into nuyen if you have nothing to buy with it to get more contacts/knowledge.

No Qualities picked either (beside Dracoform), try to fill your negative for the +25 Karma. For positive on Mage I'm a fan of Focused Concentration (Rating 4) which pair well with most sustained Health spells (Increase Reflexes, Increase Attribute…), 6 is tempting but will suck all your positive quality karma and some spells can hit you with a pretty hard drain at Force 6. Picking a Mentor Spirit is often a good idea. Bear is a classic for the extra soak dice and the bonus to heal spells but there is also some with bonus to summoning (Alligator, Bat, Boar, Eagle, Sea, Thunderbird), Boar being my favorite for that sweet extra service.

I didn't list the Dracoform bonus for simplicity but the quality is there along with Wanted.

Why do I need the levitation spell eastern drakes can fly without wings? And how do we balance this character out with the other characters in the game? They are using prime runner rules and the Sum to Ten generation that has been houseruled to Sum to 12 Generation.
« Last Edit: <09-15-16/1633:35> by GunDrake »

Kuirem

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« Reply #10 on: <09-15-16/1649:49> »
Levitate is more for your friends or when you can't afford to go into Dracoform (like if there is cameras and you don't want to compromise your identity). By the way are you sure they can fly? I tought it was just a slowfall. The fly is an optional power so you won't have it from the start.

Sum to 12 with Prime Runner will make really strong runners, I think your GM could easily add 200-300 karma on your character to balance that.

GunDrake

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« Reply #11 on: <09-16-16/1809:50> »
Is it better to create a drake with the Sum to 12 as a mage or as a mystic Adept?

Dwagonzhan

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« Reply #12 on: <09-16-16/2242:14> »
Sum to 12 is crazy powerful; but a complete headache to work with when generating Drakes courtesy of wonky game design. (the Drake quality is fragging weird, and counterintuitive outside of Karma Generation)
I'd just take Kuirem's suggestion and add around 250 Karma to your Karma-Generation Drake. Less headaches for everyone, and it'd let you make fewer sacrifices in regards to how you want your character to work thematically.

To answer your question: Mystic Adept, without question. The added Karma makes that a no-brainer. As I said before, Mystic Adepts are karma-hungry, but they capitalize when they get it.

EDIT: I put together a 1050 Karma Combat-Medic Mage turned-Drake in Chummer 5.
All bases covered (though sparse on KNO skills; you won't actually get any unless the GM invokes the optional rule of getting Free KNO skills per point of Intuition/Logic, but that's hardly a big deal).

All in all, it's pretty solid for a Drake. I'll attempt to transcribe it here, or upload the Chummer 5 file later when my internet isn't fighting to load this site (took 4 tries to go from "connection-timed-out" to opening this page).
« Last Edit: <09-16-16/2353:44> by Dwagonzhan »
"You haven't truly lived until you've had a Cortex bomb!" ~Former GM

GunDrake

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« Reply #13 on: <09-17-16/1840:34> »
This is my drake character in herolab. What do you all think of it? Do I need to change anything?https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4T1T7qomVjGc1cwN3RhUUlGSVE/view?usp=sharing
Here is another drake that I have made.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4T1T7qomVjGMFhDZDEwN0RaYWs/view?usp=sharing
Which one should I play?
« Last Edit: <09-17-16/2143:01> by GunDrake »

Dwagonzhan

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« Reply #14 on: <09-18-16/2227:53> »
Looking those over...a few comments in no particular order.

-Ritual Spellcasting with no Rituals? I'm guessing this is a long term investment (other spellcaster runners?)
-Alchemy. You know no Alchemical versions of spells, nor do you have an Alchemy Kit or Shop to create Preparations without penalty. So the remaining use would be for gathering reagents.
-Arcana: I assume this is for Initiation. Might be handy for ID'ing magical objects.
-Armorer: Good skill for a Drake (they need flexible armor and clothing); though it needs more ranks and at least an Armorer Kit (ideally an Armorer Shop).
-Fame + Wanted x2 (because Transhumanist AND Drake) = Expect a short career, or at least MANY attempts at nabbing you.
-I have no idea how some of your damage resistances are so high with 3 Body and the Gear you have. I'm probably missing something...

Otherwise, I guess you're good to go.
"You haven't truly lived until you've had a Cortex bomb!" ~Former GM