[Riff.Freelance]

Hoi Chummers!
I'm back to playing RPGs regularly and have been "forced" into running Pathfinder for a campaign. While I'm tying that campaign into a nice little bow (I'm guessing a month left) I've started preaching love of my favorite setting Shadowrun and the 6th world. Here's the rub, what edition is the best to start my greenhorns on?

I know this has been hashed out before, but almost all the posts I've found are years old and speak of waiting on books that have since been released. It's been a few years, AFAICT, so is there a clear answer? Is the picture clear?

Some background on me: I started with SR2 and 3. Did most of my playing in 3rd. I played a little bit f 4th and bought my own books because it was what was available. I changed groups a few times and lost access to the older editions, so when I started running the games, I did so in 4th. I've run enough 4th t know what I'm doing, but it's been a few years so I will have to relearn some stuff. Knowing that I have to learn, this is a decent time to get into 5th... But is it worth doing? I have access to the pdf's sent by my old GM (Thanks to Sam my omae) and because I was curious during my dark times (no gaming for 4 years) I bought the Herolab license for 5th ed and most of the add ons.

My group: Mostly played Pathfinder, I think 1 guy has played something else, I know 1 other has played some older white wolf under my old days. I've been running the groups game for a while, +6 months. I've known them all at least 4 years. I know I've got one murder hobo (combat focused person) but the rest should be fun schemers. Imagine this, all of the party has worked corrections (prison officer) for at least 4 years. These guys should be a blast in the 6th World.

Stuff I have access to:
Herolab character gen software in both flavors.
4th ed "core" books in dead tree format: 4th edition, Augmentation, Arsenal, Unwired, Street Magic, Runners Companion, and the gm screen kit.
4th ed pdf's almost all of them, I think I'm missing Mil Spec Tech and Deadly Waves and that's it.
5th ed pdf's "core" books: 5th ed, and the equivalent of the 4th ed books listed above in DTF.

So which version should I be setting up? Is the jump to 5th worth making? Is 5th edition "complete?" Did FastJack ever resurface after the SEARCH incident?

Thanks all.
Riff

[Reaver]

Depends.

5th edition has errata issues (Patrick Goodman, one of the freelancers is working hard to fix this as we speak) that some people have said makes 5e "unplayable" (their opinion, not mine).

this is less of an issue with 4e...


However, 4e is a dead product and everything forward is for 5e only, so there is that to consider.


Fastjack is still in the wind, and we don't know for sure what has happened to him. (so keep your eye open for a senior citizen that can Hack like its no-ones business! AND STAY AWAY FROM THEM!!)

[Riff.Freelance]

But how complete is 5th ed at this point? The biggest issues I've heard (admittedly from people that don't like 5th as a whole) are "more rules needed" (the big one was waiting for Riggers to get drone customization rules) and rules were not presented in a concise manner (lot of page flipping needed) I assume one might have been fixed by now, and the other is just something to deal with.

I am starting to read the Core book, but I'm just worried I'll end u with something like buyers remorse.

[Reaver]

Buyers remorse depends on you. I don't have it.

But then again, I am an old school gamer with over 34 years of gaming experience (started gaming in 1982) So I am used to broken, or in complete rules and am used to fixing those things for my table and game myself. A lot of new players seem incapable of doing so, and need "officially published, signed in triplicate, witnessed by 3 others at the time of writing, sworn an oath of a stack of bibles Errata" before they are happy.

And of course, there are things that some people feel that should be in the game, but are not.... (and all the bitching, whining, and teeth gnashing that entails).


I like 5e because it shores up some of the holes that 4e generated in the move from 3e to 4e. But at the same time, 5e has opened up other holes as well....
All in all, I like 5e more then 4e. That is not to say it's perfect.. only that I can live with the flaws and failings that are there (and that Patrick and Co. are working to fix).


the editing style of the books is my major issue, as page flipping is definitely an issue, the rules for some things are pretty scattered at times. I don't have the rigger book (no one plays a rigger at my table, so why buy it?) so I can't tell you if drone customization is there or not... but it does has some new drones and ware in it from what I have read on the forums.

[Medicineman]

>>>>However, 4e is a dead product and everything forward is for 5e only, so there is that to consider.

but bot Editions are interchangeable (except for the Matrix)
 4(A) and 5 have so much more in common than SR3 and 4 !
I'd prefer the 4A Ed.
SR5 has some ( ImO serious) Rules Problems .
F.E. the WiFi bonus  ...issue, or the : You can attack only once even though you can shoot twice ....issue

otoh If you come frome the ...SR3 Camp you might find lots of similarities with 5th Ed f.E. the Priority system, Decks are back again, the Initiative (Whis is ImO better than 4A Ed).
CGL did a good job at getting back the old Grognards from 3rd Ed

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/grognard



HokaHey
Medicineman

[Reaver]

That is true MM.

The rules can be converted back and forth with a little work. But it IS work and you have to understand the changes (or download the little 4e to 5e PDF that lays out how to do it... if you can find it still.. I can't)

I guess it boils down to playstyle and choice.. 5e is closer to 3e, which was my favorite edition, but 4e is much simpler to pick up and play (and is complete in terms of books.).

[BigSexy]

Of course there is now Shadowrun:Anarchy.
218page PDF <which you can pick up on drive thru for $15, don't know if other sites have it discounted, regular price $40>
It's Shadowrun using a modified CUE system.
I'm seriously thinking of trying to get my real would group to switch to it.
But narrative play ain't everyone's thing, so, as always, YMMV.

[Gingivitis]

I prefer 5th over 4th (or 3rd/2nd/1st).  The Astral/Matrix/Meat mesh better.  Limits really do tamp down mono-dice-stacking to a great degree. 

The main issues I have with 5th edition is not with the system but in the editing of the book itself, which is why I use a heavily house ruled version (in my sig).  Despite the book being an index of nightmare, it really is a beautiful rule book.

That being said, I am now an enthusiastic advocate for Shadowrun: Anarchy.  I have played 2 sessions (a 4 player, and a 5 player) and they were both phenomenal.  I have a post of it here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Shadowrun/comments/56aezr/sra_adventures_in_anarchy/

Of course it is a new game by the same editors of SR5, so it suffers from some errata-needs (which are being addressed).  My only worry is that now with Anarchy released, the 117 hours I put into the house rules/tables was wasted if I never play it again...

[Kiirnodel]

If it makes you feel better Gingivitis, I'm looking over your house-rules, and they look pretty good. I'm assuming based on the context that the blue text is what indicates a change from the original rules?

As for the charts, I didn't notice any similar markings, but I'm pretty sure some of them are changes. Do you have a forum or discussion somewhere where you talked about what you changed and what your thought-process was?

[pariah3j]

I would say go 5th ed personally. At this point enough of the rules have been fleshed out to make it pretty decent. While I liked 4th to some degree - the 5th ed has some better balance with the limits for accuracy/physical/mental/etc - this to me does make for more rounded characters out of the gate, which is something I like. I've always hated combat/specialty monsters rolling 20+ dice right out of character creation. It can happen with 5th to some degree, but the limits at least keeps them in check or forces them to split dice pools in combat to be more effective, etc.

We just started a 5th ed campain this last weekend with my group - my players spread their dice pools out pretty well, so they are much more rounded characters and alot less one trick ponies. Most of the group is fairly new to the Shadowrun world, so this will allow me to throw more low level mooks at them and it feel a bit more challenging. In 4th I felt like I had a lot of trouble challenging my players without almost killing them.

[Spooky]

For my two nuyen, I would go with 5th, because it is the current product. I have played since 1st ed, and I like 5th. Editing/location of information issues aside, 5th works well, especially with rigger rules now available. (vehicle mods, oh my!) I personally change the matrix rules about marks and affecting other targets in the matrix, because it works better with the game flow at my table, thus making decker/technomancer characters relevant in combat. 5th isn't as OP as 3rd, and seems to me to flow better than 4th. (could just be because I have only played 2-3 sessions in 4th)

[Gingivitis]

If it makes you feel better Gingivitis, I'm looking over your house-rules, and they look pretty good. I'm assuming based on the context that the blue text is what indicates a change from the original rules?

As for the charts, I didn't notice any similar markings, but I'm pretty sure some of them are changes. Do you have a forum or discussion somewhere where you talked about what you changed and what your thought-process was?

The tables do have some differences, but I didn't notate them because I wanted it to keep the look.  After all, these are primarily for my players (the version of the house rules that I print do not have the highlights either).

I have placed a few tid-bits into forums here and there.  I even posted the whole thing in the [SR5] House Rules here, but that thread is mainly dead.

The whole thing is getting published at Stuffershack.com eventually but I am unsure when.  I hope you like it.  It's done me good and it was really eye-opening to dissect the entire system one element at a time.