[Senko]

First off I couldn't decide if this belonged here or in the conspiracy theories board but I felt this more appropriate, if I was wrong I apologise.

I've been contemplation having some of the great dragons a bit more involved with the megacorps, not to the extent of controlling them but just having permanent "liaisons" assigned to them to help protect the dragons interests or misdirect their opponents. Individuals who can act as a go between for him to major corporations like Sony who are AA or AAA rated if necessary even if that response is just a "My lord Ryumyo doesn't mind what you do in regards to development of the Kurohitsu Village" or "My lord Lofwyr suggested that perhaps rather than developing the Kurohitsu Village into a corporate waste dump it may be more advantageous to all concerned if you converted it into something with less environmental impact like a ski resort.

Even if they're not the type for direct control I can see them wanting a way to indicate their interests from time to time and a quiet word in the ear of a AA Corp can have a lot of impact.

[MijRai]

Well, Lofwyr already controls Saeder Krupp, Lung has interests in Wuxing through his Triad ties, Ryumyo has plenty of influence on the Japanacorps through the Yakuza, Celedyr has big interests in Neo-Net...  And the rest most likely have lesser interests of their own all over the place.

As far as liaisons go, they already have some.  They're called Voices.  They aren't just there as a metahuman mouthpiece meant to convey their words to sound for technological recording; they are the dragon's representative. 

[Reaver]

Yea, Lofwyr owns SK pretty much lock, stock, and 2 bloody talons.... but its even worse as there are actually 2 SKs.... there is the SK everyone knows and loves run by the board of directors.... And then there is SK Prime (a division of SK) that Lofwyr personally directs and leads.

Lung has not shown much interest in the corporate structure and prefers to use the Triads as his go-to resource when he needs something done, which probably works out better for him then other dragons thanks to the Loyality Geas on Triad members.... (they talk, they spontaniously bleed out! Very messy but ensures no one else spills the beans).

Celedyr is the most tech savvy Dragon alive and has A LOT of infleunce in Neo-Net... (as I recall the nano virus was partly his doing).

Dragon's influence on the corps however is usually hidden behind multiple shell companies, holdings and investments giving them considerable clout behind the scenes.... which works well for a species that makes plans that take decades to come to fruit....

The most popular Voice was Nadja Daivar who acted as Dunkie's second voice... and became the VP of the UCAS and is a major stake holder in the Draco Foundation.....

The 'Voices' are more then just mouth pieces for the media, they act on their dragons interests and carry out their Will in the metahuman world.... andcare taken VERY seriously by those in the know simply because behind every Voice is the ambition and power of a Great Dragon.

[Senko]

I see, interesting. I knew Lofwyr owned Saeder Krup didn't know about the rest.

[Mirikon]

If you want to get an idea of just how Great Dragons interact with the megas, simply look at Big D's will.

[Reaver]

If you want to get an idea of just how Great Dragons interact with the megas, simply look at Big D's will.

only a Dragon keeps a 5 pound chunk of orichalcum in their sock drawer.....

[Senko]

The will actually exists? I may need to do a google search when I get home.

[Reaver]

The will actually exists? I may need to do a google search when I get home.

It's an actual BOOK! (seriously, a book)

7122 1-55560-306-8 2nd 1996 2057 Portfolio of a Dragon: Dunkelzahn's Secrets The last will of the great dragon Dunkelzahn

To give you an idea of the power and wealth a Great Dragon has:

The Draco foundation was formed in 2058 from a single gift and request in Dunkie's Will. That SINGLE gift was enough to vault the Draco Foundation to AA Corp status.

Dunkie also left 'Achievement' Gifts in his Will to anyone who could perform certain actions for the 'betterment of meta-humanity'... Such as a large cash and stock grant to the first company that could find/make a non-sapient food source for Ghouls.... Which has gone unclaimed..
There are some rather silly gifts as well.... such as the ¥187 million 'repayment' of a loan from the 1700's.... (which seems to indicate that Dragons have been sleeping during the entire mana fown swing....).

So, yea... its safe to say Great Dragons have almost unimaginable power and clout in the SR universe... So much so, that direct physical force by a Dragon is probably their least effective tool.

(And considering it took an army with anti-dragon tech to give Surrug a bloody nose, is VERY frightening!)

[Nath]

Lung has not shown much interest in the corporate structure and prefers to use the Triads as his go-to resource when he needs something done

Which, considering how things work in Hong Kong and Canton, basically account to the same thing, as corporations also turn to the Triads when they really need something done.

Ryumyo enjoys a similarly high level of influence in Japan, without needing to resort to puny human concepts such as equity stock and voting rights. They are dragons in China and Japan. When they make a suggestion to a business executive or a politician, it is like Jesus Christ tried to call such people in Italy or the Bible Belt. Sure, the people involved in the topic at hand may not be receptive. But Jesus Christ did not have claws and hitmen.

Celedyr is the most tech savvy Dragon alive and has A LOT of infleunce in Neo-Net... (as I recall the nano virus was partly his doing).

"Lot of influence" meaning owning 13% of the stock and holding the position of chief technology officer. Prior to the Novatech-Erika-Transys Neuronet merger that created Neonet in 2065, he used to own 37% of Transys Neuronet and practically control the corporation (though he first had to wrestle for that control with the Hildebrandt-Kleinfort-Bernal megacorporation).

The will actually exists? I may need to do a google search when I get home.

As a way to save you some time and conveniantly give people here the resource, a copy of Dunkelzahn's Will can be found on Shadowrun official website :

http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/game-resources/dunkelzahns-will/

The formatting may be unpleasant to read, so I'd also point to the Web Archive

https://web.archive.org/web/20080102110841/http://www.shadowrun4.com/resources/will1.shtml

Additionnally, Bob "Ancient History" Derrie put up an annotated version at some point, that feature a lot of interesting information.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110119014130/http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Dunk_Will.htm

It's an actual BOOK! (seriously, a book)

7122 1-55560-306-8 2nd 1996 2057 Portfolio of a Dragon: Dunkelzahn's Secrets The last will of the great dragon Dunkelzahn

To defuse any excessive anticipation and avoid disappointment, PoaD:DS is a 114 pages-long, soft-cover book, but the actual will is only 12 pages long. About 15 pages deal with the death of Dunkelzahn, 20 pages gives additionnal information about a number of people and organizations mentionned in the will, and the last 40 pages or so focus on a handful of the will items.

The most popular Voice was Nadja Daivar who acted as Dunkie's second voice... and became the VP of the UCAS and is a major stake holder in the Draco Foundation.....

The Draco foundation was formed in 2058 from a single gift and request in Dunkie's Will. That SINGLE gift was enough to vault the Draco Foundation to AA Corp status.

The Draco Foundation was created immediately after the will release in August 2057, so as to conform to the will regarding certain bequests, and started its operations on September 1st.

The will actually allows Nadja Daviar, as the executor, to "use what funds are necessary from the balance of my estate for the establishment of the Draco Foundation." As far as I remember, there is no assets that is specifically directed to go to the Foundation. Though the will requires a number of large sums to be provisionned, for which it was reasonable to think they would not be delivered before a few years if not more, the Draco Foundation and Nadja Daviar own personal wealth may mostly come from things that are not mentionned in the will.

Also, being a foundation established under UCAS legal system, the DF never filled with the Corporate Court and never received AA rating and megacorporate extraterritorial privileges. Its wealth and influence may have been on par with that of a megacorp, but it wasn't technically one.

There are some rather silly gifts as well.... such as the ¥187 million 'repayment' of a loan from the 1700's.... (which seems to indicate that Dragons have been sleeping during the entire mana fown swing....).

Actually, 34,6 billion UCAS dollars, granted to one Art Dankwalther, which would convert to about 8,6 billion nuyen. The will specifically mention a yearly 1% interest rate, and says conversion and inflation were accounted for. So it would require between 1800 and 2500 years to reach the 34,6 billion mark, with a starting value between 1 and 300 dollars (depending on the weight and estimated value for one gold coin at the time).

[Mirikon]

And just a reminder that some of those 'silly' gifts had rather direct causal links to both the Arcology Shutdown and Crash 2.0.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Not to mention the shaky status of Novatech and its subsequent merger with Transys-Neuronet and Erika to form NeoNET.

Senko, I honestly have a hard time believing you didn't know how intensely dragons were involved with the corporate world - and hearing that you didn't know that The Will was an actual thing boggles my mind.

That stated, yes, I think dragons (especially Great Dragons) have adapted well to corporations.  Most have 'domains', that other dragons don't mess with (at least not the stock-buying part), but some have their talons spread wide.  The Amazonian Great Dragons are certainly likely to have hooks into MCT, Renraku, and the other Japanacorps, just to make sure they're tracking what's going on next door; Hestaby, before she was stripped, likely had an equally-broad portfolio.

[Senko]

I knew they were involved I just thought it was more move a claw here . . . . change of stocks there . . . . new ceo over here with new direction . . . employees given reduncancy . . . change of stock around here . . .. achievement of goal. I didn't realize they all already had mouthpieces who could speak for their goals directly to a company with a few expections e.g. Loftwyr.

What can I say about the will I knew it was real as in had major repurcussions on the world I didn't know there was an actual book with a physical copy of it in existence to look up. This I think is a bit of an ongoing problem with this game in that there's a huge amount of backstory and connections and information out there but for someone like me coming in on 5th with very minimal playing of 4th or maybe it was 3rd that game never really got far anyway we just don't know it exists. Alternatively we know it exists in a generic "this happened" sense but don't know there was an actual release dealing with it because there's nothing in 5th to indicate that not even a "list of useful books". Worse we see a rule or description in the 5th ed books that directly counters mechanics which existed in earlier editions and came to the table with a very different view of how something works compared to someone who's been playing since 1st ed.  We're right by the current system but we're playing with people who for 4 editions have printed rules showing we're wrong in those ones.

Take Ryoumo till this thread I thought he was a spiritual (as in religious/philosphilcal) dragon who mainly resided in his home and only dealt with Shinto priests. Completely inaccurate going by what was posted but its what I got as an impression from the mentions in the books and I know a LOT of the recommended reading people post here is to earlier editions not the current one to get an understanding of things.

[Reaver]

Thanks for the correction Nath. Its been about 15 years since I read the book and was running off memory.

I actually pulled out the book (cause I am actually home for once) and started reading it again....

It gives you a REALLY good idea of the reach of a Great Dragon especially little lines like :

".... Any Cayman Island of their choice".

And shows just how many plans within plans WITH back up plans a Dragon can actually put in motion with lines like: "...I leave box 412 to be opened...." "...I leave the other 15 boxes"


Question for those in the know:

Did we ever find out what was behind door 5B78 ?

[Reaver]

Senko, you have to remember that Shadowrun has a living history that dates back 25+ years. That is a LOT history to try to fit into a single book.

Going from 1e to 4e you are talking about 40+ books, each 100+ pages long, then there are what, 30+ novels which also contribute to the history of Shadowrun...

The 6th world alminac is the closest summary I've seen done and even that skips HUGE amounts of info!

But really, its no different then any other game system that has a living history. To understand the world of Dragonlance, you had to read 80+ novels! Forgotten Realms? Another 60 novels, and 35 source books (3 of them just on the Gods!).

Does it make it hard on new players? Yes it does. But that is part an parcel of table tops.... and why I will NEVER get involved in the lore of Warhammer 40k. I don't have the free time to read 200 books to learn it all.

[Reaver]

If it helps you, goto wikipedia and type in Shadowrun.

It will tell you every book and edition. From there you can figure out what books may be of interest to you. Obviously you don't need the CRB and ERB books.... but the plot/fluff books come in very handy at understanding the world and the crap in it.