[Jareth Valar]

Ok, been doing some movie watchingand Shadowrun talking lately. Just rewatched Captain America: Winter Soldier (great movie, IMHO) and was thinking, Falcons EXO-7 flight unit just might be doable.  With all the drones and things, I don‘t it would be too far fetched.

Figuring speed 4 or 5, acc 3 but not sure about handling. Would it be a set number like a regulà vehicle or would handling be based on physical limit somehow?

I know somene did the stats up for the glide pack from the videogame, but they were for 4th iirc and the is no longer viable.

Any help here would be appreciated.

[Reaver]

There is a flight pack in the 4e book. (can't remember the name if it, as it was pretty silly)


And NO. The tech level is NOT there...... you have several large problems to overcome that the movies like to gloss over....

such as Fuel, The Exo-7 is the vectored Thrust engine, which means you need a liquid fuel..... Something the movies gloss over. You could use a battery system, but it would NOT be a vectored thrust system and more of Rotary turbine, which then means you blades like a helicopter... which means they would have to much bigger then the person to provide the lift needed....


Some things from other media just do not translate well to actual "real world" physics.... And keep in mind the Marvel universe also has "Gamma Radiated" people walking about, people with gigawatt electro magnet reactors in their chests, People that fly through space (and TALK in space) with out space suits.....

[adzling]

now on the other hand his nifty pop-out machine pistols are totally doable.
I added them to our game, see below ;-)

[Jareth Valar]

There is a flight pack in the 4e book. (can't remember the name if it, as it was pretty silly)


And NO. The tech level is NOT there...... you have several large problems to overcome that the movies like to gloss over....

such as Fuel, The Exo-7 is the vectored Thrust engine, which means you need a liquid fuel..... Something the movies gloss over. You could use a battery system, but it would NOT be a vectored thrust system and more of Rotary turbine, which then means you blades like a helicopter... which means they would have to much bigger then the person to provide the lift needed....

OK, first off, would have responded earlier, but real life and junk.

Second, it would be helpful to back some things up with a little research/science, especially is you are quoting "real world" physics.   Jet-packs have been in existence (though mostly as  experimental/enthusiast craft only) since the '60's (though on paper as early as 1919).  Specifically, liquid fuel and vector thrust is possible right now.  True, sustained flight was approx. 10 min with kerosene fuel, but proof of concept.

Also, winged jet-packs have also been flown in this century, also made of carbon fiber.  Again, these are all experimental currently, but with the advances in technology in SR, especially drone tech and ASSIST, as well as the possible para-military (read corporate) utility I think the possible push for the research is plausible.

Liquid fuel in Shadowrun could also mean an Electric Fuel Cell not necessarily jet fuel (or more like kerosene fuel in current models).  For in game reference, in previous  editions (specifically 3rd, Rigger 3) Fuel Cell was a possible power source for Thunderbirds and both Med and Large UAV vector thrust engines.  Current technology has entertained the idea of adding jet turbines to a fuel cell engine to maximize potential.

Some things from other media just do not translate well to actual "real world" physics.... And keep in mind the Marvel universe also has "Gamma Radiated" people walking about, people with gigawatt electro magnet reactors in their chests, People that fly through space (and TALK in space) with out space suits.....

As for this? Yes, entirely appropriate to mention when you have peoples' DNA being triggered by an (scientifically) undetectable  mysterious energy into genetically stable sub-races, where certain individuals have their consciousness leave their bodies for extended jaunts into other realms of existance only thought of in myth and legend and have the ability to bend modern physics to their, almost, complete control, as well as biologically improbable hexapedal super-predators with penchants for social manipulation and economics (among many other varied pursuits to include show business and teaching).

As I said, personally, I think the technology is just about there, especially for experimental models.  My question was for some helpful input preferably.

Again, is there any precedence in the books (don't own Rigger 5 yet) for the handling to be based off of the Physical Limit or should something like this have a static Handling?

[Novocrane]

This pack fits under and around the wingsuit parachute. It consists of two kerosene rockets and an electronic firing mechanism. When activated it offers the wingsuit user horizontal flight at a speed of 200 meters per Combat Turn for a total of up to three minutes (60 Combat Turns). It can only be used once, and must then be discarded.

[Reaver]

Yes jet packs do exist now. With the most current model having a total fight time of 9 minutes (2007).  (For the record, the ones from the 1960's made famous in a James Bond film, had a flight time of 33 seconds!)

And 'Electric Fuel Cell' is right there in the description. They provide electricity through the use of reactive chemicals, and they are around today. Currently EFCs provide 80,000 amp hours of power per 200kg of weight and I generally install them as back power systems for atmospherics in remote mines and wells were there is no other reliable back power (such as a diseal generator).  Which doesn't solve your issue of thrust, which is what you need for the Exo-7 to work. For thrust, you need pressurized gases, which means fuel and no, not just rocket fuel, peroxide will work, kerosene will work, in fact any explosive, expanding gas will work. Hell, pressurized CO2 would work.

So if you used an EFC, you are back to a rotary turbine system, similiar to a helocopter.... and there is a one man vehcile like that already in SR. (Found in the Arsenal book I believe).

[Reaver]

To save you the trouble, here is the write up from Arsenal:

Page 112
Lockheed Sparrow (FPMV)
While classic jetpacks are still far from mass production,
the size of hoverjets has shrunk considerably. This flying personal
mobility vehicle (FPMV) is considered by many to be a
rich man’s toy, but with the advent of AR controls and wireless
transponders, flying a Sparrow around the city is not as dangerous
as it once was and the price is continually dropping. Basically
a human-sized frame with two vector thrust engines mounted,
the Sparrow is useful for avoiding traffic and other dangers on
the ground.

the 4e stats were:
Handling +1 Accel 15/40 Speed 90 Pilot 3 body 4 Armor 2 Sensor 1 Avail 12R Cost 19,500

This is not a jetpack per-say, but an actual vehicle that the pilot stands up in and is strapped into. There is a picture in the book for you to reference back to.

[Jareth Valar]

Actually, thank you very much. I, unfortunately, lost a good chunk of my Shadowrun collection and, as such, do not have access to Arsenal any longer.  Most helpful.   Keep this up and you might have to shift one of the percentages in your tag to 1% Helpful.

As for the Sparrow, that is a working production model craft.  As the text says, "jetpacks are still far from mass production" i.e. cost effective/marketable, not far from feasible.  What I'm mentioning is straight prototype/experimental.  As they are theoretical/experimental in the current era and level of technology (with serious duration problems) I, personally, feel that the level of tech advancement CAN support these in that fashion (and will in one of my up coming adventures).

You, however, are more than welcome to disagree (and I see you do.  It's wonderful to see freedom in action as it is supposed to work).

However, if anybody with a better command of 5th edition than I would like to add some help as to what the stats would be, it would be appreciated.

As per my original request;
 
Figuring speed 4 or 5, acc 3 but not sure about handling. Would it be a set number like a regulà vehicle or would handling be based on physical limit somehow?

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Well, if you're dead-set on having it in there, I'd base the Handling on the PC's physical limit - because going by the way the jetwings function, a major part of their agility is how the user can shift the wings and their own body.  This is an exclusive case in which I'd probably make the vehicular skill based off Agility instead of Reaction - perhaps their average..

[Jahrl Mirkson]

From the Marvel Cinematic Universe wikia's page on the EXO-7:
"Flight: The primary purpose of the EXO-7's wings is to facilitate powered flight. Thrust is provided by three miniaturized jet engines, housed in the backpack. They provide something on the order of 1000 lbs of thrust, which is enough rescue a grown adult from free fall, and ascend, thus countering the rescuee's downward momentum. The primary control interface is a pair of hand grips, mounted on the wings themselves and are supplemented with a cybernetic link to a pair of goggles. For safety reasons, the EXO-7 has a built-in parachute, in case it malfunctions or sustains damage."

If that helps. Of course you then have the problems of having something with 1000 pounds of thrust strapped to your back. Physics can be a bitch.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

AKA "WHEEEEE!!!!!"

[Jareth Valar]

Do you think straight Physical Limit or modified? -1 or -2 or more?

as for the 1000 lbs of thrust, my science is weak this early, assuming Falcon (Anthony Mackie) weighs 180 lbs (81.8 kg) and the back weighs in at approx 30? lbs (13.6 kg) sound appropriate? (I have no idea, never worn a parachute or a heavy pack much less an engine strapped over my @$$), that would give him just over 100 mph vertical (?) (only done game math for decades, forgive if I am in error)

BTW, thanks for the help.

As for being "dead-set", not exactly, but I am having a high risk/high reward mission come up vs Doc Wagon (or Ares) and thought these would be an interesting twist to include, and as I stated before, IMHO I think they would be feasible in the experimental stage.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

The real problems are a) protection from the probably-very-hot 150-kg-thrust-each jets, and b) long-term fuel considerations for the jet.  Those could be perhaps be solved, even if only for a short time (5m total powered flight?  Or better yet, flight time measured in total kg of thrust produced) or perhaps electrically/electronically.

A parachute weighs 7-11kg, so that's your base if you include the parachute.  Parachutes are made with very light materials, such as silk (density 1.3); the EXO-7 is probably going to have carbon-fiber wings (density 1.6) and pack materiels that are light weight, deal well with heat, and are durable, like polyimide (density 1.6), but more likely ceramic/metal composites (with densities running from 3.0 on up to 6.0).  So your weight is going to likely be 3x the weight of the parachute, so a total of 40kg.

Add on assorted gear and the weight of the pilot (100kg), and you'll easily hit the 150kg of thrust produced by one jet.  On the other hand, thrust-to-weight ratios (T/W) don't actually have to be all that insanely high, especially if you have any kind of aerodynamicness.  Even without that, though, there's a good amount; you're looking at an available T/W ratio about equal to the jets on the SR-71 Blackbird.

Given SR ... yeah, I suppose it's possible to have an experimental set.  40kg including parachute ... perhaps a -2 or -3 to the physical limit.  Skydiving skills for the win on that one....

[Reaver]

Also note, you don't need a "hot" fuel as I mentioned before.

HydrogenPeroxide (H2O2) has good thrust ratios, burns at a low temperature (20 to 60c) which is the reason its used in temperature sensitive locations.
Downside is it also easily EXPLODES!(mechanical shock, heat) But you could save weight on the pilot/equipment thermal shielding by using it.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Problem with every fuel is capacity.  :/  But like I said, if you broke it down into either Turns Active or 'kg of thrust', it might be workable.