[DeathofVirtue]

  So as I'm sure many of the riggers and gm's here know the Horizon "Noizquito " has a tendency to get banned from games or nuked by gm's due to it's outrageously powerfull effects from the speakers and strobes.

  I actually really like the idea of the Noizquito but hate how it was implemented, leading to the inevitable, "Thats not allowed" or "sure you can take it, but your going to have a city blocks worth of htr up you a** if you use it".  As a result I have been working on ways to alter it so that it functions in a less game breaking manner and so it can be used how it actually would be by experienced runners in my humble opinion, meaning people can use it without attracting the ire of the gm.

  So option 1:  Remove the penalties from the strobes and speakers (They have no effect in combat)  but keep them on the drone (The maximum volume is now 70 Db and will quickly reduce drone lifespan) , this means a drone can't pour on those op dice pool mods but in the hands of a talented rigger it can move from spot to spot as an outstanding distraction tool, spreading chaos and opportunities in it's wake.  Just like it was designed to.  Keep all base stats, availability and costs the same.

  Option 2:  Totally remove the strobes and speakers, replace with Realistic Features (1), you now have a relatively cheap military spec recon drone with a pretty good sensor package for it's size thats ideal for Non-Urbanised areas.  (I will post altered stats here shortly).

 Option 3:  This is the newest model released after the Aztlan-Amazonian war based on the suggestions of the Amazonians using the original model.  Combine the speakers and strobes (no dicepool penalty) with realistic features (1) and you have a drone thats perfrect for the guerrilla warfare tactics they were designed for.  Keep all stats availability etc the same BUT increase BASE cost to 3,000 NY (Up from 2,000).

  This is obviously a give and take deal on all 3 options but one I feel reflects the design intent of the drone without killing your game or breaking your riggers heart  .

  Some people will likely make comparisons between option 2+3  and the festo pigeon (Or equivalent) stating it fits the same role better and costs less or the same.  My response to this is simple, the festo pigeon is not a restricted military drone, simply owning one will not have GOD or Lonestar breathing down your neck when it's found on you, the Noizquito IS a restricted military drone and you ARE taking an inherant risk by purchasing/possesing one you would not be taking with civilian drones that fill a similar role, leaving the options nicely balanced.

  Any thoughts suggestions or constructive criticism?  Would you allow one of these in your game?

[Jack_Spade]

The Noizquito can be used salvaged just by applying the rules from core on Glare instead of those stupid special rules:

1 Noizequito creates 1 point of distraction
2 create 3
3 create 6
6 create 10

Flare compensation shifts this two rows up, as does sound dampening

In regard to your options:
1: What is the mechanical effect in that case? Why should anyone be distracted by a drone that doesn't do anything (although it is perfectly capable to be modded to carry a weapon)
2: Fly Spy has that and is cheaper - redundant
3: Again, how is distraction achieved?

[DeathofVirtue]

  1-3 The speakers and strobes still WORK they just dont apply a negative penalty to dice pool.  Just because a speaker at 160 Db isn't providing dice pool modifiers does not mean it's not LOUD and drawing attention to an area you want it, like say luring people into a killbox or IeD.   A really creative rigger might set the drone to use a voice recording of a guard taken earlier saying something such as "Over here please help I think I'm having a heart attack"!   Or a young child calling for "mum", just because you can use it to be loud doesn't mean it's the only way it can be used, your imagination is far more dangerous.

  2.  Different drone, different natural environment(Potentially), (different stats I think? My sourcebook is on loan atm).   Variety as they say is the spice of life simply because something is cheaper does not in any way mean it's better across the board, otherwise why bother with any recon drone but the cheapest in its category, answer, because they are better suited to different tasks, one may be faster and have better sensors meaning it's great for seizing moments of opportunity wheras another may be slower but have a much longer operational life allowing you to play the slow game, it's all down to knowing what type of recon you want and why  

  Example:  Doing a stakeout in an area (Say a port) to see if the shipment you want to tumble is going to be stored on site is a job for longer lifetime drones.  Wheras trying to get a picture of your mark appearing to be involved in some questionable activity you arranged earlier might be something you want a far more manuverable and fast drone for to get in position before the opportunity is gone.  The lifespans shorter, but your much more likely to get the paydirt.

[Jack_Spade]

Sorry, but no: If there is no mechanical penalty you won't achieve any effect in game - SR is a crunch intensive game.

Noizquito has:

HANDL 4
SPEED 3R
ACCEL 2
BODY 1
ARM 0
PILOT 3
SENS 3
AVAIL 10R
COST 2,000¥
Standard Upgrades: Flying, speakers, strobes

Fly Spy has:

HANDL 4
SPEED 3R
ACCEL 2
BODY 1
ARM 0
PILOT 3
SENS 3
AVAIL 8
COST 2,000¥
Standard Upgrades: Realistic features (Rating 2)

There is literally no reason to buy a more expensive drone if it doesn't have a mechanical effect.

Variety doesn't count here. All equipment is already produced in identical variants from all major producers.

[DeathofVirtue]

Sorry, but no: If there is no mechanical penalty you won't achieve any effect in game - SR is a crunch intensive game.

There is literally no reason to buy a more expensive drone if it doesn't have a mechanical effect.

Variety doesn't count here. All equipment is already produced in identical variants from all major producers.

  I'm sorry but I vehemently disagree, the idea that if something applies no mechanical penalty it won't achieve any effect in game is demonstrably false. 

  From that argument somone who uses a recorded message on a dictaphone to draw attention from a guard isn't applying a mechanical penalty to the guard with the dictaphone, they are decieving him for good or ill but this isnt a mechanical penalty.  That does not mean it isn't audible or believable.  A door being opened by its owner is applying no mechanical penalty under normal circumstances, it's still opening.  A news broadcast on the trid is applying no mechanical penalty but it can still inform the watcher of the news.  In fact by that logic any normal conversation that does not use a skill or apply say an intimidation bonus or similar effect has no effect when they demonstrably do on how people react.  Magnetism does not yada yada penalty.  Etc.

  You can certainly attempt to apply mechanical penalties to everything but sooner or later you will always reach things that don't have a mechanical penalty but do function.

  I agree mechanical penalties are extremely common due to the crunch and I dont view this as a bad thing. You simply need a system for drawing attention in this case, arguing a 160 Db speaker has no effect (Ergo makes no sound) because the negative dicepool modifiers it has to people who hear it while it's at full volume and being used to try and deafen someone are removed is rather silly, it seems as though your saying by extension setting the volume on it to 3 Db max and using it to play a tape would also be impossible as an effect because the speaker now putting out noise at 3 of it's maximum 120 db is providing no negative mechanical penalties, do you realise how ludicrous that stance is?

  As far as option 2 yes I was wrong on the spyfly I appreciate you popping the stats (I could have sworn it's pilot was 2)   .  However my point about potentially different environments still stands although in this case the fly would be better by far for the majority of urban cases, I suppose I could tweak pilot, sensor, speed or manuver in order to differentiate between the two so there are statistical ups and downs to both, I would add a max extra overall increase of 1 point to justify restricted.   I'll look at that when im more awake, it's taken me long enough to type this on a ps4 controller while Dozing off as it is, damn head colds and freaking drowzy cold medicines xD

*Blinks, blearily trying to figure which of the 3 post buttons is the real one*

[Jack_Spade]

Apples and oranges.

A distraction in a non-combat situation is entirely different than a distraction during a shoot-out.
Also, the actions you describe are also covered on p.135 core, so they have a described mechanic effect. (Namely, they get -2 to perceive you sneaking by while they are distracted by your dictaphone)

But this is nothing exclusive to the Noizquito as you could have a fly spy zooming around their heads as well for much the same effect.

  I agree mechanical penalties are extremely common due to the crunch and I dont view this as a bad thing. You simply need a system for drawing attention in this case, arguing a 160 Db speaker has no effect (Ergo makes no sound) because the negative dicepool modifiers it has to people who hear it while it's at full volume and being used to try and deafen someone are removed is rather silly, it seems as though your saying by extension setting the volume on it to 3 Db max and using it to play a tape would also be impossible as an effect because the speaker now putting out noise at 3 of it's maximum 120 db is providing no negative mechanical penalties, do you realise how ludicrous that stance is?

Please refrain from calling my arguments ludicrous. There is no need to use incendiary language and it won't convince me that you are right, rather the contrary. Consider rather the possibility that you misunderstood me because you aren't at the top of your game (as you admit yourself)

That said: You have it completely backwards: I'm saying a 160db speaker must have a defined mechanical effect in game. (Although I have to say this 160db are pretty incredible from a pure physics point of view on such a small device). Just saying your opponent is distracted will do nothing to stop him from shooting at you. If you say the noise prevents him from shooting at you at all than you just have decided to inflict a mechanical penalty (and a rather severe one at that).

And no: An insect looks at home pretty much the same, no matter if it's urban or jungle environment.

[Novocrane]

Sitting next to a dragster as it fires up its engines and screams down the raceway can be more than just loud; it can be damaging to your entire body. At the 155-160 Decibel range not only will it severely to permanently damage your hearing, but it also vibrates your vision and makes it temporarily difficult to swallow. That’s why no one stands next to them.

160Db should be quietly retired as the Noizquito output. It's beyond distraction and into physically damaging.

[DeathofVirtue]

  Sorry if that somehow offended you, I'm using ludicrous as the oxford dictionary describes the word," so foolish, unreasonable or out of place as to be amusing ".  No inflammatory intent or meaning I'm simply stating that I find the idea of a 160 db speaker making no noise, regardless of how many Db it's set at because it's not outputting a mechanical penalty so unreasonable or out of place as to be funny.  I had assumed the context was clear.

  Further I agree the Db limit is rather silly and it's something I would probably cap at 80-100 Db but I was not intending the speakers to be used in combat to distract, hence removing the dp mods, just because they have a listed limit of 160Db does not mean they are used at that volume, for example using them at 20-30 Db to play a biohazard warning tone in a lab, without being in combat.

  From the way your initial point was worded it seemed as though you were saying because it wasnt trying to apply a penalty it wasn't functioning at all because you didn't specify you were talking about in combat.  For combat I would agree if it was trying to use the speakers at a high enough range to be an irritant then yes your point is totally vallid and I have no issue with it beyond the initial clarification of in combat.  However the real beauty of this rig is it's ability to draw attention to or away from areas outside of combat.

  I suppose I could reword the description of the speakers to state either during combat use the glare rules as you suggested or that the speakers/strobes are too small and weak to be a distraction in combat combined with the reduced Db range mentioned earlier.

  As far as environment I was reffering more to the fact that both flies and mosquitos have different time periods that they are common in after respective breeding seasons, not that noizquito will be at an advantage because of areas where flies arent common.  However to reference your point that "An insect looks at home prety much the same, no matter if it's an urban or jungle environment"  that largely depends if it's a native resident of that environment, slight oversimplification there.

  It seems the main point we disagreed on has been cleared up now you have supplied some context, this is as much my fault for the misunderstanding as yours, I failed to specify I had intended for out of combat use with no applicable effect in combat and you failed to specify you were reffering to in combat if they dont have mechanical penalties they have no effect, joint facepalm? : P

[Quatar]

There is literally no reason to buy a more expensive drone if it doesn't have a mechanical effect.

Variety doesn't count here. All equipment is already produced in identical variants from all major producers.

You seem to forget that the MCT Fly-Spy is a Minidrone, while the Noizquito is actually a Microdrone.

According to p.420 CRB, that means the Fly-Spy gets a -2 modifier to get spotted the Noizquito a -6 !

That's a pretty good reason for me

[Jack_Spade]

Which begs the question why the Noizquito even has one point of body or where these incredibly loud noises are supposed to come from.

[Quatar]

FutureTech™

Seriously, I don't know. But even making it Body 0 like the two Microdrones from the CRB wouldn't change the fact that people would want to use them as scout drones.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Which begs the question why the Noizquito even has one point of body or where these incredibly loud noises are supposed to come from.

Individually, LED lights are tiny.  The biggest speakers in the world use relatively tiny wires to carry the charge and the signal to them.  If the Noizquito is proving 'OP', I would tend to require a) that it be landed on a suitable surface in order to provide the loud noise deafening effect (because nowadays you CAN turn an entire table or wall into a speaker with a palm-sized gizmo), and b) that doing so is going to eat up energy, shortening the drone's activity span drastically.

But that's me.

[DeathofVirtue]

These seem like reasonable enough stipulations that fairly accuratley mimic the real world constraints of technology like that used by the noizquito.  Ultimatley the only restraints on rebalancing it are not over complicating how you do it.  This is a really good example of doing it right, it's simple fair and fast to implement.

  Apologies for my lack of updates on this thread, I have been in and out of hospital like a yoyo the past few weeks and found it quite impossible to keep it updated due to my lack of a mobile phone/device.

  Quatar brings up an excellent point I overlooked, further highlighting that cheaper drones with similar stats/roles aren't always better.  My thanks.  Obviously this will always come down to if a gm will allow it in the game or not and how it's recieved by the group but I personally feel the Noizquito makes a solid basis for a scout drone even without the speaker and strobe functionalities enabled or just set up so they don't stack.  It really does not take a lot of fuss to keep it balanced.

  The bottom line is simply that a flat ban or disproportionately harsh gm response with regards to the noizquito really are not the best methods to deal with it.  Yes the stack mechanic as written is obviously broken but it takes such a small effort and short time to bring the drone in line that such drastic measures are in my opinion completley unnecessary and just detract from the game.

  Obviously if somone can make valid points contributing to a clear case why it's prefferable to ban it or come down on people using it like a hammer then my viewpoint is naturally open to change, however I really don't feel such treatment is at all merited.

[Wakshaani]

Personally? I just treat it as having a reusable Flash Pack on it (which already can't stack) and call it a day, but, it's not my design, so.