[Frost]

So my group currently does their dastardly deeds under the guise of a security/private investigation company. I have decided to take a different path in the next run and have decided that they are awarded a contract to set up a secured facility (stronghold) within the Redmond Barrens. So they'll have to locate a suitable facility, then transform it into something that can survive in the barrens. They'll be given a vehicle or hire a vehicle to drive them around the barrens to find a location. So the question is this: what type of vehicle could realistically be used in Redmond. Realistically, you can't take just any vehicle, not only due to the need to go in heavily armed and armored, but also because the roads in the barrens are probably close to nonexistent in the traditional sense of the word. I mean, the potholes could probably swallow a sedan. I've been considering either a hovercraft or a tracked vehicle. Armaments aren't the question, just what type of vehicle would be suitable in an area that has such deteriorated infrastructure?

[PiXeL01]

Most armored SUVs would be able to make the trip I would reckon. Hovercrafts are simply too big in an urban environment and I suspect tracked vehicles would draw more attention than an armored truck.
Some armored personal carriers wood do fine as long as the clearance is high enough (the driver is a Rigger to jump rockets, potholes etc.)

[PiXeL01]

If looking in Rigger 5 then Wolf II, Goliath or Stallion would do the job just fine, especially if you mod a little bit

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

There's mention in the lore of convoys that travel around through the barrens made up of things like busses and garbage trucks, uparmored Mad-Max style.

Wheeled vehicles should be fine.  Point admitted though that you'll want vehicles with decent off-road handling stats for when the roads are just literally strewn with rubble and garbage.

[Marcus]

In general i would be less interested in the vehicle and more interested in the driver. Further I'd match vehicle and driver to the theme of the run, i was trying to point forward. I don't know what your looking for exactly but that's where I would start. With the know how most any vehicle can probably make the trip, yeah an armor SUV would be preferable in many ways, but it also stands out, vintage rebuilt post apocalyptic VW Bus make a very statement, but can also get you through from point A to B, maybe with inviting so much attention.

[Tecumseh]

You just want an Ares Roadmaster from the core rulebook. Its price is reasonable - considerably less than the Rigger 5 options - and it has a generous amount of armor that is suitable for the Barrens. Plus, you can drive it through respectable areas of town without drawing undue attention. The Rigger 5 rigs that PiXeL01 mentions are are all high cost/availability - including Restricted/Forbidden - and mostly bristling with gun ports.

[Frost]

I'm thinking (if they're smart) that they'll do a lot of the actual site selection with aerial drones. $$ won't exactly be an option for them, since someone else will be footing the bill for the hardware, but the runners won't actually get to keep any of the gear they buy, but will be paid a regular fee. I was more curious what everyone thought practical ground transport through Redmond would look like. They'll probably wind up doing caravans, so I figure the Hellhound? tractor trailer will suffice once they get convoys going.

We had to stop playing for a few months and then have restarted recently, but some of the players left and others joined as schedules permit. Right now its a crew of gunslinger adepts and street sammy's, so I'm looking for some more combat oriented games. I thought them having to establish a secure facility there would be a good start.

[PiXeL01]

I chose my selection due to being a security firm. But yeah, a road master or any other truck would do if modded slightly and have a Rigger behind the wheel.
Aerial drones might be shot out of the sky by gangers or bored youth so something more durable would be a great option.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Something as mundane as a Dalmatian should be able to fly high enough to render itself safe from anything but dedicated anti-aircraft platforms.  Granted in Redmond there probably is at least one instance of someone with the combination of technical savvy and resources to put together a radar-guidance suite for some anti-aircraft guns, but surely there can't be MANY of such instances    Corps and KE will afterall eventually go to the bother of stomping such things if they consistently prove to be a bother to their own drones.

[Frost]

That's what I figured, something high altitude and fast would be good for fly-overs then they can go in with other means to look around more later, once they locate a good site. Part of the reasons I'm having this in the Redmond Barrens is to populate it with some interesting denizens. I always felt it was just a bit of a dead space that was never developed to its true potential because it was just seen as a disaster area. I'm thinking something Simon R. Green's Nightside-ish. I'm going to have them run into a sisterhood of female ghouls, sort of like a convent of nuns but dressed in red and white, but not sure in a good or bad capacity yet. A few encounters which make them see the barrens as more interesting...

[Spooky]

One of the things I did to my table who set up shop in the Barrens was have a go-gang try to take over the local church that provides about half the meals for the locals. Interesting situation.

[Mirikon]

Something as mundane as a Dalmatian should be able to fly high enough to render itself safe from anything but dedicated anti-aircraft platforms.  Granted in Redmond there probably is at least one instance of someone with the combination of technical savvy and resources to put together a radar-guidance suite for some anti-aircraft guns, but surely there can't be MANY of such instances    Corps and KE will afterall eventually go to the bother of stomping such things if they consistently prove to be a bother to their own drones.

Remember that long range on something like a sniper rifle, Med/heavy machine gun, or assault cannon is over a kilometer, same as with missile launchers. And at that range, anything you can put on a Dalmation is pretty much useless. Rule of thumb: if you can shoot them, they can shoot you. And also high altitude means you're going to be missing details on the street level.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Something as mundane as a Dalmatian should be able to fly high enough to render itself safe from anything but dedicated anti-aircraft platforms.  Granted in Redmond there probably is at least one instance of someone with the combination of technical savvy and resources to put together a radar-guidance suite for some anti-aircraft guns, but surely there can't be MANY of such instances    Corps and KE will afterall eventually go to the bother of stomping such things if they consistently prove to be a bother to their own drones.

Remember that long range on something like a sniper rifle, Med/heavy machine gun, or assault cannon is over a kilometer, same as with missile launchers. And at that range, anything you can put on a Dalmation is pretty much useless. Rule of thumb: if you can shoot them, they can shoot you. And also high altitude means you're going to be missing details on the street level.

Yeah, a kilometer is only 1,000 meters.  A large drone can surely hit an altitude of several kilometers (10,000 feet ~= 3KM).  That high up not only is it out of range of any non-dedicated AA weapon, it's probably not even going to be seen at all by persons on the ground.

And yes, fine detail would be harder to see than if you're at rooftop level.. so that's why you invest in some quality sensors.. especially image magnification!

[Mirikon]

Something as mundane as a Dalmatian should be able to fly high enough to render itself safe from anything but dedicated anti-aircraft platforms.  Granted in Redmond there probably is at least one instance of someone with the combination of technical savvy and resources to put together a radar-guidance suite for some anti-aircraft guns, but surely there can't be MANY of such instances    Corps and KE will afterall eventually go to the bother of stomping such things if they consistently prove to be a bother to their own drones.

Remember that long range on something like a sniper rifle, Med/heavy machine gun, or assault cannon is over a kilometer, same as with missile launchers. And at that range, anything you can put on a Dalmation is pretty much useless. Rule of thumb: if you can shoot them, they can shoot you. And also high altitude means you're going to be missing details on the street level.

Yeah, a kilometer is only 1,000 meters.  A large drone can surely hit an altitude of several kilometers (10,000 feet ~= 3KM).  That high up not only is it out of range of any non-dedicated AA weapon, it's probably not even going to be seen at all by persons on the ground.

And yes, fine detail would be harder to see than if you're at rooftop level.. so that's why you invest in some quality sensors.. especially image magnification!

I'm fairly certain you don't understand what you're talking about. For comparison, Mt. St. Helens is only 2549 meters tall, and Mt. Fuji is only 3776 meters tall (about 3.8 KM). Are you telling me that you are going to park a drone 3/4 up a mountain, and hope your camera has enough magnification to get anything better than 'hey, I think that white blob is a truck of some kind' And you'll have to deal with at least 3 Noise, just from the distance. And up that high, you're going to be the only thing around, which means, conversely, that anyone in the area will find it EASIER to spot your icon, since there isn't any camouflage. Sticking down at rooftop levels, and making your drone look like a delivery drone or something else innocuous goes a lot further to keep you from being spotted than just trying to fly high enough that your drone needs to worry about the cold at altitude as well as other crap. And if it is a heavy smog day? Forget about it!

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Something as mundane as a Dalmatian should be able to fly high enough to render itself safe from anything but dedicated anti-aircraft platforms.  Granted in Redmond there probably is at least one instance of someone with the combination of technical savvy and resources to put together a radar-guidance suite for some anti-aircraft guns, but surely there can't be MANY of such instances    Corps and KE will afterall eventually go to the bother of stomping such things if they consistently prove to be a bother to their own drones.

Remember that long range on something like a sniper rifle, Med/heavy machine gun, or assault cannon is over a kilometer, same as with missile launchers. And at that range, anything you can put on a Dalmation is pretty much useless. Rule of thumb: if you can shoot them, they can shoot you. And also high altitude means you're going to be missing details on the street level.

Yeah, a kilometer is only 1,000 meters.  A large drone can surely hit an altitude of several kilometers (10,000 feet ~= 3KM).  That high up not only is it out of range of any non-dedicated AA weapon, it's probably not even going to be seen at all by persons on the ground.

And yes, fine detail would be harder to see than if you're at rooftop level.. so that's why you invest in some quality sensors.. especially image magnification!

I'm fairly certain you don't understand what you're talking about. For comparison, Mt. St. Helens is only 2549 meters tall, and Mt. Fuji is only 3776 meters tall (about 3.8 KM). Are you telling me that you are going to park a drone 3/4 up a mountain, and hope your camera has enough magnification to get anything better than 'hey, I think that white blob is a truck of some kind'

Yes.  That's exactly what I'm telling you.  Real life drones have no problems whatsoever seeing nice and small details from altitudes of much (MUCH) higher than 10,000 feet.  And that's tech that's 50+ years obsolete by the time of SR5.

And you'll have to deal with at least 3 Noise, just from the distance. And up that high, you're going to be the only thing around, which means, conversely, that anyone in the area will find it EASIER to spot your icon, since there isn't any camouflage. Sticking down at rooftop levels, and making your drone look like a delivery drone or something else innocuous goes a lot further to keep you from being spotted than just trying to fly high enough that your drone needs to worry about the cold at altitude as well as other crap. And if it is a heavy smog day? Forget about it!

3 Noise is easy to deal with, even for a non-matrix specialized character.  Even if you entirely neglect to deal with that distance based noise, who cares?  Radioing a sensor feed over the matrix has no test, so -3 dice to no dice being rolled is no real penalty at all.

As for being easy to see?  Not at all.  Even if it weren't running silent, what reason would anyone on the ground have to even be looking up at aircraft up into traffic control airspace?  Would anyone really mess with (what's as far as they know is) commercial air traffic?  Again that's a great way to sufficiently piss off the government and/or megacorps to come find you even in the barrens. 

Even if you're being sneaky and hiding from the FAA as well as any potential ground-based observers by running your drone silent, we're well beyond the 100 meter threshold here.  Yes, someone can potentially spot hidden icons running anywhere in the world.  But how many NPCs are scanning for hidden icons 3km away, be it on the ground or in the sky?  Hell, have the team's matrix specialist in charge of the master comm device and any NPCs on the ground are gonna have to beat the matrix specialist to successfully spot the drone even if for some reason they stumbled across the drone up and out of visual sight.


I mean, if anything you're giving great reasons to NOT fly rooftop level.  That's low enough to be seen by people not deliberately watching the skies, low enough to be shot by small arms, hell even low enough to have no other air traffic to use as camouflage.   Aircraft and drones surely overfly the Barrens... at altitude.  Noone's going to fly aircraft at low altitude over the barrens, not unless they've got hostile intent for those they're overflying...  Fly a Dalmatian up high enough and it indeed blends in with delivery drones and god knows what else that's taking the as-the-crow-flies shortest path that happens to overfly the barrens.. while ensuring it does not become a target of opportunity for a bored troll packing an assault cannon.

Edit: For fun, here's an unclassified example of what's being done real world.  Keep in mind this example is discussing 20,000 feet, twice what I was talking about.  And it's already 5 years old.  Give it another 50 and it's probably fair game to say the drones can read the time off your commlink wrist display from 10,000 feet