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The Catholic Church in the Sixth World

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Sichr

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« Reply #45 on: <05-27-12/1548:14> »
Sorry to revive this, well there is a lot of new space for speculations on this topic, and it would be waste if those 5 pages remain forgotten:

http://www.vatileaks.com/

Longshot23

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« Reply #46 on: <05-28-12/0534:39> »
There are also regional Catholic Church views.  While the current SR Pope said, basically, that magic and metahumans were okay . . . there are parts of Europe which adhere to a more hostile view as the 'true' Catholic dogma:  Spain, Portugal, Southern Italy, Southern France, Westphalia, Austria . . . feel free to chip in. While Spain, Portugal and Austria  are nominally toeing the Vatican line, albeit with a whackload of theo-political maneuvering behind the scenes, Westphalia completely broke with the Vatican.

I also find it interesting that Aztlan is apparently out to destroy the Catholic Church in toto, starting with the suppression of Catholicism within its borders and control.  Whereas Tir na nOg was, again apparently, content with breaking the Church's power and influence within Ireland.

More as I think of it . . . I confess to having an in-character interest in this, as the significant other of my PC was killed by Vatican Templars.

Sichr

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« Reply #47 on: <05-28-12/0702:57> »
About that AZT, I remember in Aztlan sourcebook there was a lot of notations that Jezuits are active in cyber warfare against Aztlan...this is also supported by their activity in Bogotáa...


Longshot23

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« Reply #48 on: <05-28-12/0958:27> »
Not just cyberwarfare - protecting what congregations still meet and seeking (re)converts. The description of a New Jesuit was . . . alarming, cos if that's what they were like, and the New Templars were even more hard-core/line . . . then . . . yeesh  :o

Sichr

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« Reply #49 on: <05-28-12/1034:18> »
Yup. Ive come across so called Sylvestryan brothers, who in fact are Vigilia Evangelica, in 2nd Artifacts adventure. It seems to me that those guys are much more than just a moderate threat to common runner, on the other side, they seem to tend to protgect and talk to people instead of shooting them first. I have much more to read, as I have suspicion that such groups also appear in Conspiration Theories. Really currious they made me. Aslo As Ive posted that vatileaks link, im trying to dig up something that allows me to use this groups more in what is going on in 6th world.

CanRay

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« Reply #50 on: <05-28-12/1102:03> »
There's also the rumored “The Knights of Saint Nicholas”.

Safehouses, page 8.
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Sichr

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« Reply #51 on: <05-28-12/1115:18> »
U dont say :)

Slowly making my way to that book. So I still cannot applaud, sir :)

Mirikon

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« Reply #52 on: <05-28-12/1309:22> »
The reasons Aztlan and Tir na Nog wanted the Catholic Church out of their lands are the same. The Tir wanted to make a nice, elf-only land run by the 'old ways', and the Church would have interfered with that. Aztlan wanted to make a nice, corporate owned place run by the corporate religion and using blood magic for all kinds of fun and games, and the Church would have interfered with that.

OK, so their motives weren't completely the same...


Anyways, how I see it is that, when the Awakening happened, you had what amounted to fantasy stories coming to life, complete with elves, orks, dragons, and magic. You know what isn't in all those old fantasy stories? One God and his Son and yada yada yada. On top of that, everyone's ideas of how the world worked were completely thrown on their heads, and that makes people scared. Religious leaders are not immune to this, and because of the fact that they are religious leaders, they tend to see these things as tests or punishments from on high. Which leads us to the Pope condemning all Awakened.

Fast forward a couple decades, and people are coming to grips with the world, and the fear diminishes. Which is why people looked at the Church's view, and decided that something needed to change.
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #53 on: <05-28-12/1444:05> »
Religion is, as you might guess, a *very* touchy subject. Here and there, some writers will nibble aorund the edges, but, as Torg taught us, you have to be CAREFUL with this stuff. Few things are as personal as someone's private beliefs.

As for myself, I'd like to see a tad more religion in-game, or at least a few more believers. When times are rough (And, in Shadowrun, times are tough more often than not!), people find some strength through their beliefs. Doesn't matter if it's Yahweh or Grandfather Coyote or Odin or 1000101, whatever someone chooses to believe in, and invoke, should come through. Havng a handful of 'runners that fire off a quick prayer or an 'Our Father' before taking a big risk, or leaving a small sacrifice to the sky father, whatever, in the middle of all the usual grim-faced types is a nice change.

For teh Shadowrun game world, the Catholic Church got kicked out of several places and had a Pope who kinda scuttled relationships badly, but has been slowly working to repair things. The Church has been active in Aztlan since the 40's, trying to get back what they lost and drive out the blood magicians, for instance, while in Europe, they battle against vampires and the Black Lodge. (Or were infiltrated by the Black Lodge, depending on who you believe.)

Making a VALUE judgement on these organizations ia a bad idea, but, as long as you're respectful, you can use them for in-game plots, I think.

Just, please, for the sake of everyone, walk carefully.

Sichr

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« Reply #54 on: <05-28-12/1518:57> »
absolutely right. Im happy that at my table there is no political corectness involved. But on interwebz, I wont challenge since I know just a little of people here...and it is realy easy to offend someone
So...Peace please
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #55 on: <05-28-12/1524:58> »
New Jesuit Order.  Pfaugh.  Not even the Jesuits are named the Jesuits.  I bet you the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) and the Dogs of God (Dominicans) have some serious scorn for the amateurs that the NJO and Templars are....
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CanRay

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« Reply #56 on: <05-28-12/1753:04> »
U dont say :)

Slowly making my way to that book. So I still cannot applaud, sir :)
Wait until you see why they're named that.
Religion is, as you might guess, a *very* touchy subject. Here and there, some writers will nibble aorund the edges, but, as Torg taught us, you have to be CAREFUL with this stuff. Few things are as personal as someone's private beliefs.
So we can't make the obvious comparisons between the Universal Brotherhood and Scientology?  ;D
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LonePaladin

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« Reply #57 on: <05-28-12/1803:29> »
Just, please, for the sake of everyone, walk carefully.
Thank you, Wakshaani. This was why I had all those warnings and disclaimers on my original post.

One of the major issues that led to me writing this was something brought up in Shadows of Europe, which has thusly been added to the canon timeline: the Church allowing female priests. This is one of those issues that people have been trying to get for thousands of years already (especially recently), and it's just not going to change -- possibly in one of the many groups that split off from the Catholic Church, but not in the main Church.

Admittedly, this particular issue turns up a lot in sci-fi stories. Most of these are written by non-Catholics or, worse, ex-Catholics. The latter tend to be a particularly vitriolic group, and if they get something published or start up any sort of group activity, they tend to take every aspect of Church doctrine, reverse it, and claim that their version is the "right" way.

Anyway, since this discussion got revived, I'll see if I can find my notes on that alternate magical tradition, like I promised a while back.
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #58 on: <05-28-12/1953:00> »
quote author=Wakshaani link=topic=2726.msg132302#msg132302 date=1338230645]Religion is, as you might guess, a *very* touchy subject. Here and there, some writers will nibble aorund the edges, but, as Torg taught us, you have to be CAREFUL with this stuff. Few things are as personal as someone's private beliefs.
So we can't make the obvious comparisons between the Universal Brotherhood and Scientology?  ;D
[/quote]

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Back on topic, in my Current Project (tm), I have a situation set up with a UB-like thing. It was a tad tricky (When it gets published, I can talk about it more), That I have two people biased for and against it, then several others who don't discuss their exact beliefs, but take a line that you need to believe in *something*... I think it's a fair balance. We'll see when it starts hitting people's hands. Which won't be before Gencon. I feel so bad for the main crew right now ... they're working, like 32 hour days.

Longshot23

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« Reply #59 on: <05-29-12/0225:40> »
New Jesuit Order.  Pfaugh.  Not even the Jesuits are named the Jesuits.  I bet you the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) and the Dogs of God (Dominicans) have some serious scorn for the amateurs that the NJO and Templars are....

Bit of a strange doubling up in 6W Catholic Church . . . The original Society of Jesus exists alongside the New Jesuits.  And the Domini canes were disbanded in the . . . 17th century? 18th?  Only to be reformed ostensibly under the patronage of (a) St Dominic.  I don't know which one.

One group absent - in retrospect, strangely obviously so - from Conspiracy Theories was Opus Dei . . .

 

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