[Mindset]

In all probability, we are old. A least compared to some of the young cats who I see playing sr4, we are. When I was in my teens, I thought 25 was old. Now I wish I was 25 again. Anyways, sr4 could use some "raygun-ness" and some more illustration in their equipment chapters.

[CanRay]

I want my Gun and Vehicle Porn!

[Morg]

Firearms and Ammo could may need 3 stats to represent there effectiveness then you could get a better grasp of the round
Stoping Power (SP) Modifies the target's Body by this value when checking for knockdown
A round with a lot of takedown potential would have a negavive value and a round with a low potential would have a positive one.
In essence Gel rounds have a build in Stoping Power of -2

Example Ares Predator IV Power 5P AP -1 SP -1

Thoughts?

[Mindset]

I definitely think you're on to something there, Morg. The question is how would you translate that into a simplified game mechanic that every ten year old can apply to a character? Those values could directly effect a character's, or npc's, ability to keep upright after being hit or a creature/whatever's ability to continue a charge once hit. Also, the size of the round being directed down range could effect pinning tests and fear levels. It would be cool to see a mechanic in place to represent the terror of a newb runner having .50 cal rounds exploding plascrete and car door arounds him during his first fire fight.

[CanRay]

Rules for suppression and morale are in War!.

I can't remember, but I'd bet weight of fire comes into play.  (I was kind of distracted while reading it in a hospital ER.).

[savaze]

Well if we're going to get more complicated... Awesome!

Knockdown ratings on each ammo *already mentioned*
There would also be different Ballistic armor ratings for handgun and rifle rounds
There would be damage scaling for range

That's just off the top of my head...

[savaze]

Oh and scaling recoil based on the damage (caliber) of the weapon!

[CanRay]

Rules for suppression and morale are in War!.

I can't remember, but I'd bet weight of fire comes into play.  (I was kind of distracted while reading it in a hospital ER.).

War!, Page 136, Composure test.

Threshold is 3 for a new encounter, 2 for when they've already seen the elephant.

A green troop seeing a Ma Deuce?  I'd up the threshold for that if I was the GM.

[Wayfinder]

Composure p. 138 SR4a

Composure (WIL + CHA)
There are many common occurrences in a shadowrunner’s life—vicious
violence, death, metahuman misery, scary monsters, and magic—that
would make average citizens crumple into whimpering, traumatized
rag-dolls. Whenever a character encounters a situation that she has not
been hardened to, the gamemaster can call for a composure test to see
whether she faces the situation with cool resolve, temporarily freezes
with shock, or trembles and pisses herself.
Composure is a Willpower + Charisma Test, with a threshold
based on the severity of the situation (keeping in mind how often the
character has faced similar things in the past). Certain situations are
bound to become routine to shadowrunners (getting shot at, attacked
by an angry spirit, or seeing the remains of a ghoul’s meal); in these
cases, gamemasters should no longer ask for composure tests.

I use composure tests on a regular basis, and firefights for newbie runners is just a given. Full on military engagement is one even hardcore runners should have to test on. That is why there is additional rules in War.

[CanRay]

So what would the threshhold on this be?

[savaze]

For those interested in the Kel-Tec KSG I found a video on YouTube where they're field testing it (it's 47 minutes).

[savaze]

Here's some pics of a catastrophic failure of an AR, take note!

[Morg]

I definitely think you're on to something there, Morg. The question is how would you translate that into a simplified game mechanic that every ten year old can apply to a character? Those values could directly effect a character's, or npc's, ability to keep upright after being hit or a creature/whatever's ability to continue a charge once hit. Also, the size of the round being directed down range could effect pinning tests and fear levels. It would be cool to see a mechanic in place to represent the terror of a newb runner having .50 cal rounds exploding plascrete and car door arounds him during his first fire fight.

@ Mindset

Characters who take damage may be knocked down by the attack. If a character takes a number of boxes of damage (stun or physical) from a single attack that equal or exceed his Body, then the attack automatically knocks him down. Characters who take 10 or more boxes of damage in a single attack are always knocked down.

Therefore stoping power would add or subtract from the targets Body for determining knockdown

sorry for late reply

[Morg]

I figure we can get some suggestions form the gun crazys about what has a better stoping power and maybe rate them for it

What do you all think of a Ruger super War hawk with SP 2 load it with Gel for an extra SP of 2

I don't know about you but I think I would fall over getting hit by the RL equivalent and I'm BIG

[CanRay]

A troll would drop from that.  And they're bigger!