[Michael Chandra]

With the guy who threatened to go after their kid? And who brags about selling TMs to MCT? Do you honestly expect that to ever happen? The only way Clockwork's problem would ever be solved, is if he dies a horrible death.

[Mirikon]

Netcat in 4e was interesting. As one of only two TMs who were regulars on Jackpoint, she had a unique perspective on the Matrix, and provided some insight you wouldn't get elsewhere (since Puck plays silent a lot). She was big on TM rights, but it isn't like she was always harping about it. If you look, it only comes up when Clockwork is being an ass, or when it was relevant to the matter at hand (MCT or NeoNET black labs, etc.). The times she wrote 'TM-y' articles for Jackpoint, it wasn't a SJW thing, but a 'how I see the Matrix' thing.

In 5e, however, she is a bit boring, but that has less to do with her, and more to do with the devs trying to forget TMs ever existed.

[SpellBinder]

The only way Clockwork's problem would ever be solved, is if he dies a horrible death.

Or emerges as a technomancer himself.

[Michael Chandra]

The only way Clockwork's problem would ever be solved, is if he dies a horrible death.

Or emerges as a technomancer himself.

That would be a nice run. Kidnap CW and sell him to MCT.

[PMárk]

With the guy who threatened to go after their kid? And who brags about selling TMs to MCT? Do you honestly expect that to ever happen? The only way Clockwork's problem would ever be solved, is if he dies a horrible death.

Stranger things happened.

Netcat in 4e was interesting. As one of only two TMs who were regulars on Jackpoint, she had a unique perspective on the Matrix, and provided some insight you wouldn't get elsewhere (since Puck plays silent a lot). She was big on TM rights, but it isn't like she was always harping about it. If you look, it only comes up when Clockwork is being an ass, or when it was relevant to the matter at hand (MCT or NeoNET black labs, etc.). The times she wrote 'TM-y' articles for Jackpoint, it wasn't a SJW thing, but a 'how I see the Matrix' thing.

In 5e, however, she is a bit boring, but that has less to do with her, and more to do with the devs trying to forget TMs ever existed.

Well, I know I likely won't be popular by saying it, but... Honestly, technomancers always felt as an unnecessary addition. They're ok, but quite the same niche as deckers. I get that some people ike to play Neo, but for me, I never was a really big fan of the whole virtual reality stuff. I never felt the inclination to play a Virtual Adept in Mage the Ascension either. Just not my cup of tea. So for me, if technomancers would disappear from the game altogether, I won't bat an eyelash. Maybe they were a more important setting element in 4e, I don't know, I'm familiar with 3e and 5e, so I tend to forget them or jsut thinking about them as "those hackers who don't need a deck" and that's all.

I wouldn't want them to disappear, since clearly, some people like them a lot, but to me, they're an aftertought.

The only way Clockwork's problem would ever be solved, is if he dies a horrible death.

Or emerges as a technomancer himself.

I'd totally buy that! Existential angst never goes out of fashion.

[Michael Chandra]

Ah, you don't like TMs. No wonder.

[Mirikon]

Technomancers seem like an unnecessary addition if you view them only through the 5e lens, sure. That's because this edition has done everything possible to minimize them and delete them short of retconning them from existence.

In 4E, TMs were the spiritual successors of the Otaku of older editions. The Matrix had evolved, and so too did its children. No longer bound by tribes or requiring even basic 'ware to connect to the Matrix, when they Emerged, they lived and breathed the Matrix as easily as a child took in sights and sounds. They did things in a fundamentally different way than people who hacked with a link. They were the Swiss army knives of the Matrix, able to do any number of things (though not at the same time), but they paid for it by being glass cannons at times, especially in Matrix combat. They could hack, and they could rig, but the way a TM hacked meant they needed to do things differently than a hacker would. They would focus more on stealth and a devastating opening salvo, and then escaping if it came to matrix combat, while a hacker who didn't take matrix damage directly to their brain could slug it out with their better defenses.

Along with a great many other things the nostalgia-induced 5E Matrix screwed up, TMs have been brutally served by Catalyst this edition.

[PMárk]

Ah, you don't like TMs. No wonder.

"Don't like" feels a bit too strong to describe my attitude toward them. Let's call it polite disinterest.

Technomancers seem like an unnecessary addition if you view them only through the 5e lens, sure. That's because this edition has done everything possible to minimize them and delete them short of retconning them from existence.

Well, as I said, I view them through 3e-5e lens. I started playing SR only 2 years back and the group knew 3e and earlier editions (those came out in Hungarian back then). I was curious about how the game1s right now, both in rules and metaplot, so I've started to read 5e too. So, I just doesn't have experiences with 4e, beside reading a bit because of the fluff, like Clutch of Dragons.

So, Technomancers were't a thing in 3e, Otaku were highly tied to the plot. There were no technomancers in the older books, not in the old novels. What I want to say, Technomancers just didn't feel like a profound part of the game, or the core archetypes.

In 4E, TMs were the spiritual successors of the Otaku of older editions. The Matrix had evolved, and so too did its children. No longer bound by tribes or requiring even basic 'ware to connect to the Matrix, when they Emerged, they lived and breathed the Matrix as easily as a child took in sights and sounds. They did things in a fundamentally different way than people who hacked with a link. They were the Swiss army knives of the Matrix, able to do any number of things (though not at the same time), but they paid for it by being glass cannons at times, especially in Matrix combat. They could hack, and they could rig, but the way a TM hacked meant they needed to do things differently than a hacker would. They would focus more on stealth and a devastating opening salvo, and then escaping if it came to matrix combat, while a hacker who didn't take matrix damage directly to their brain could slug it out with their better defenses.

Along with a great many other things the nostalgia-induced 5E Matrix screwed up, TMs have been brutally served by Catalyst this edition.

I get that and I don't want to argue with the notion that they could have been better served by Catalyst, for the pople who do love them. I'm just not into the virtual reality stuff (lot more into the magic part, to be honest) so these differences between deckers and TMs dn't mean anything special to me. I totally get that they're different, i get that some people like the idea of being one with the Matrix and stuff, but for me, they're more-or-less just hackers without decks.

Sorry, I don't want to belittle anyone's favorite archetype, it's really just that they aren't adding much things of interest to the game for me. I'm not really interested in deckers either, but at least those are iconic parts of the setting and gadgets are fun.   

But to be clear, I don't want TMs to go away, because others like them and I wish them a better treatment. It's just not a priority for me.

[Jack in the Box]

I've never understood the comparison often made between deckers and TMs.
To me, deckers are hackers without peer.  TMs are more like shamans.  They don't need to hack on the fly or brute force.  My TM's only matrix skills are software and electronic warfare.  I don't need anything more than that.  I do complex forms for everything with sprites assisting.  And then there's all the things my TM can do outside of the matrix (such as diagnostics on machines) and skinlink pretty much everything.

[Baby Rigger]

Netcat in 4e was interesting. As one of only two TMs who were regulars on Jackpoint, she had a unique perspective on the Matrix, and provided some insight you wouldn't get elsewhere (since Puck plays silent a lot). She was big on TM rights, but it isn't like she was always harping about it. If you look, it only comes up when Clockwork is being an ass, or when it was relevant to the matter at hand (MCT or NeoNET black labs, etc.). The times she wrote 'TM-y' articles for Jackpoint, it wasn't a SJW thing, but a 'how I see the Matrix' thing.

In 5e, however, she is a bit boring, but that has less to do with her, and more to do with the devs trying to forget TMs ever existed.

  On a somewhat related note is it just me or does Slam-O! seem different as well? In the past he seem like a bit of a joker but still serious and mature  but now he seems more like a man-child dork.

[忍]

dad-syndrome

[CanRay]

The only way Clockwork's problem would ever be solved, is if he dies a horrible death.

Or emerges as a technomancer himself.

I think he'd go the Glory Route (Shadowrun:  Dragonfall Reference) and cyber himself up so much that his Resonance Level could only be found by DataWorms, and even they'd have to be looking under their bellies.

[SpellBinder]

The only way Clockwork's problem would ever be solved, is if he dies a horrible death.

Or emerges as a technomancer himself.

I think he'd go the Glory Route (Shadowrun:  Dragonfall Reference) and cyber himself up so much that his Resonance Level could only be found by DataWorms, and even they'd have to be looking under their bellies.

That'd be such a bummer if he actually did that.  Though as of Twilight Horizon he's already at 3.95, but that'll drop in the conversion to SR5.  Could make for a really good story if handled well, rather than just a "oh drek, time to become a cyberzombie" suicide route.

[Lorebane24]

There's that platitude that there are four things that will change you - love, art, music, and loss.  I think the setting of Shadowrun lends itself best to the fourth being more common.  I think that if either Netcat or Slamm-0 were to, y'know, die, it would the catalyst for a lot of development for the other.

[Mirikon]

There's that platitude that there are four things that will change you - love, art, music, and loss.  I think the setting of Shadowrun lends itself best to the fourth being more common.  I think that if either Netcat or Slamm-0 were to, y'know, die, it would the catalyst for a lot of development for the other.

That also tends to be lazy writing, as you see in how many crappy romance novels?