[PingGuy]

...
I tried to leverage the advantage of the KK's higher body, but its other stats are lower and the extra slots aren't enough to get it to where the Direkt or Duelist can get with their lower limit.
...

(italicized for emphasis)

Remember: if this is for a SRM context, you MUST use the optional drone modding rules in R5 pg 122.  This means none of the drones you've discussed in the post have any available mod points.  You have to lose something to gain anything (other than explicitly stated standard upgrades) in all three examples.

I have those rules enabled in Chummer and built all of these drones using those rules.  None of these three drones have modification slots taken up by anything when you purchase them.  Their full body capacity is available for modifications.  Of course Chummer could be wrong, but I didn't see a parenthesized number after the body for any of the anthro drones in the CRB or R5.  Am I missing something?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Yeah.. no parenthesized number is the same thing as (0).

[Michael Chandra]

I find that unlikely, given the amount of X(0) that are in the Rigger table and the absence of a rule explicitly stating that no number means (0). The Dalmatian and Lynx don't list a number either, but 5(0) without any mods and 6(0) for the Lynx with a Heavy Weapon Mount seem unlikely to be intended.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

On rereading the rules on pg 122, I have to concede it does appear the intent on notation was that a parentheses was used when the mod points differ from the base body stat, and that therefore it's reasonable to assume it has a # of mod points = to body if there is no parentheses.

[Fedifensor]

I see the points on the expense of the drone, and I’ll do another dig through the rules when I get a chance. However, I think Realistic Features 3 is about the minimum I’d accept, since it is effectively the character’s appearance to anyone he socializes with during a mission.

[PingGuy]

I see the points on the expense of the drone, and I’ll do another dig through the rules when I get a chance. However, I think Realistic Features 3 is about the minimum I’d accept, since it is effectively the character’s appearance to anyone he socializes with during a mission.

I get that, and it's not the biggest issue involved, it just pushes you into cheaper anthro drones to keep things manageable.  It also makes the repair cost matter.  5% of 4,500 is 225 whereas 5% of 20,500 is 1025.  So it matters how repair costs are calculated.  I forgot to reread that part of the book when I was looking last night.

The real issue is whether it can survive a run or two, and we won't know that until you try it.  But I wish you good luck.

[Fedifensor]

The real issue is whether it can survive a run or two, and we won't know that until you try it.  But I wish you good luck.

That brings up an interesting point, when it comes to Missions.  Here’s the rule on drones wearing armor:

How does regular armor interact with vehicle armor?

What are you even doing!? OK, fine, I get it, an anthropomorphic drone wearing regular armor will use the higher armor rating. Armor Piercing is applied to both the worn armor and the vehicle’s armor (this removes any ability to interpret worn armor as a + rating armor). Damage mitigated to stun has no effect and electric damage becomes physical.

On one hand, there’s no reason to buy drone armor if the worn armor supersedes it.  On the other, a sufficiently high armor value from the worn armor makes the drone effectively immune to lower-damage weapons unless they’re electrical.

Example:  Droneboy buys a set of Sleeping Tiger armor with Gel Packs, Nonconductivity 6, and also buys a Synergist Business Line Longcoat.  He puts the armor on his anthropomorphic drone, giving it an armor value of 18, with an extra +6 versus electrical attacks (the traditional bane of drones).  Bulletguy shoots the drone, double-tapping his Ares Predator V with APDS (9P damage, -5 AP) and gets 3 net hits.  The armor value of 18 is dropped to 13 by the AP, which is more than the 12P damage of the attack.  The damage turns to stun, and drones don’t take stun damage (pg 171 SR5), so the attack is ineffective.

Example 2:  Bulletguy repeats his attack, but uses Stick and Shock ammo instead.  This time, with the same 3 hits, the final damage is 10P (drones take physical from electric attacks), with -5 AP.  The drone has 24 Armor versus electrical attacks and 4 Body, so gets to roll 28 dice to resist.  The drone roll pretty average, and gets 9 hits, reducing the damage to 1 boxes of physical damage.

[EDIT: Corrected Example 2]

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

It may not be helpful to the OP, but honestly if what you're trying to do in rigging an anthro drone is making yourself as tough a tank as possible, I think that's barking up the wrong tree.

You'll never be more effective than a 4 cyberlimb Singularity Seeker with a Pain Editor.  You can't ever be jammed/hacked out of your own body, you have a WAY bigger CM monitor (and while you technically take stun damage, you still ignore its penalties/effects), and healing is free in between SRM sessions whereas repairing drones is definitely NOT free.

Not to say don't play an Avatar dude.. just saying it's not the best way to build a 'you can't kill this!'.  In case that's what you were trying to do.

[Fedifensor]

Not to say don't play an Avatar dude.. just saying it's not the best way to build a 'you can't kill this!'.  In case that's what you were trying to do.

It's less "You can't kill this!" and more "I can't afford the repair bills if the drone gets shot up every mission."

For fun, I thought I'd put together a much cheaper drone:

Aztechnology Criado Juan
2 Handling
2 Speed
1 Accelleration
2 Body
2 Pilot
2 Sensor

Modifications:  Realistic Features 3, Amphibious 2, Drone Arm (right) with cybergun (Browning Ultra Power w/ silencer and external clip port) and cyberlimb optimization (Munden Quickdraw), Drone Arm (left) with cyberlimb optimization (Munden Quickdraw)

Total drone cost: 25,640.  Repair cost per box of damage:  1,282.

Equipment: Sleeping Tiger (with Nonconductivity 6 and Thermal Dampening 4), Synergist Business Line Longcoat, 30 shots APDS, 20 shots Stick-n-Shock, 4 clips.

Soak: Body 2 + Armor 18 (+6 electric) = 20 dice (26 versus electric)

Total Equipment Cost: 16,340

Total Cost (Drone + Equipment): 41,980

[PingGuy]

The real issue is whether it can survive a run or two, and we won't know that until you try it.  But I wish you good luck.

That brings up an interesting point, when it comes to Missions.  Here’s the rule on drones wearing armor:

How does regular armor interact with vehicle armor?

What are you even doing!? OK, fine, I get it, an anthropomorphic drone wearing regular armor will use the higher armor rating. Armor Piercing is applied to both the worn armor and the vehicle’s armor (this removes any ability to interpret worn armor as a + rating armor). Damage mitigated to stun has no effect and electric damage becomes physical.

On one hand, there’s no reason to buy drone armor if the worn armor supersedes it.  On the other, a sufficiently high armor value from the worn armor makes the drone effectively immune to lower-damage weapons unless they’re electrical.

Example:  Droneboy buys a set of Sleeping Tiger armor with Gel Packs, Nonconductivity 6, and also buys a Synergist Business Line Longcoat.  He puts the armor on his anthropomorphic drone, giving it an armor value of 18, with an extra +6 versus electrical attacks (the traditional bane of drones).  Bulletguy shoots the drone, double-tapping his Ares Predator V with APDS (9P damage, -5 AP) and gets 3 net hits.  The armor value of 18 is dropped to 13 by the AP, which is more than the 12P damage of the attack.  The damage turns to stun, and drones don’t take stun damage (pg 171 SR5), so the attack is ineffective.

Example 2:  Bulletguy repeats his attack, but uses Stick and Shock ammo instead.  This time, with the same 3 hits, the final damage is 10S, with -5 AP.  The drone has 24 Armor versus electrical attacks and 4 Body, so gets to roll 23 dice to resist.  The drone roll pretty average, and gets 7 hits, reducing the damage to 3 boxes of physical.

For some reason I thought the anthro drone armor + worn armor thing was an official call made by a freelancer or Aaron in one of those kind of threads.  Maybe it was, but Missions went the other way?  Who knows, it doesn't really matter.  This isn't actually bad though, ignoring stun damage when you are likely to be wearing armor with a high value is a good thing.  Thanks for the clarification.  I think it actually increases the life expectancy of this drone concept.

Not to say don't play an Avatar dude.. just saying it's not the best way to build a 'you can't kill this!'.  In case that's what you were trying to do.

It's less "You can't kill this!" and more "I can't afford the repair bills if the drone gets shot up every mission."

For fun, I thought I'd put together a much cheaper drone:

Aztechnology Criado Juan
2 Handling
2 Speed
1 Accelleration
2 Body
2 Pilot
2 Sensor

Modifications:  Realistic Features 3, Amphibious 2, Drone Arm (right) with cybergun (Browning Ultra Power w/ silencer and external clip port) and cyberlimb optimization (Munden Quickdraw), Drone Arm (left) with cyberlimb optimization (Munden Quickdraw)

Total drone cost: 25,640.  Repair cost per box of damage:  1,282.

Equipment: Sleeping Tiger (with Nonconductivity 6 and Thermal Dampening 4), Synergist Business Line Longcoat, 30 shots APDS, 20 shots Stick-n-Shock, 4 clips.

Soak: Body 2 + Armor 18 (+6 electric) = 20 dice (26 versus electric)

Total Equipment Cost: 16,340

Total Cost (Drone + Equipment): 41,980

Since the first upgrade point doesn't use a mod point, and is likely cheap, you can upgrade the Handling, Speed, Acceleration, and Sensor ratings of this drone also.  It might not matter much, but it's good to know its an option.

As far as the repair cost, I reread that section in R5 and it's not specific.  It could go either way, although in the flavor text for salvaging parts from other drones it doesn't say anything about it needing to be from the same type of drone or one having the same build.  So that might be an argument for basing it off of the drone purchase cost.  I'm sure an Agent could give you some kind of ruling on that ahead of time.

You also might want to look into the Sparring Drone from Hard Targets, I've seen people mention it before and it is cheaper and better than the Criado Juan.  I should probably look into it myself, i'm just a sucker for those Duelists...

[Fedifensor]

Here's my first pass at the rigger.  I ended up going with the more expensive drone, for the extra Body. 



Anthropomorphic Drone Rigger
METATYPE: ELF
B 1, A 6/8, R 7/10, S 1, W 3, L 5, I 5, C 3, ESS 2.87, EDG 2
Condition Monitor (P/S): 9 / 10
Armor: 7
Limits: Physical 5, Mental 6, Social 4
Physical Initiative: 12/15+2D6
Matrix Initiative: 10+3D6
Active Skills: Electronic Warfare 6, Electronics Group 2, Gunnery (Ballistic +2) 6, Pilot Aircraft 1, Pilot Ground Craft (Wheeled +2) 1, Pilot Walker (Biped +2) 6, Pistols (Semi-Automatics +2) 6, Stealth Group 1
Knowledge Skills: Chop Shops 4, Drone Designs (Anthropomorphic +2) 6, Sprawl Life 4
Languages: English 5, Japanese N
Qualities: Agile Defender, Allergy, Uncommon (Mild): Grass, Biocompatibility (Cyberware), Exceptional Attribute: Reaction, Faceless, Force of Chaos, Jack of All Trades, Master of None, Weak Immune System
Augmentations:
. . Control Rig (Alphaware) (1)
. . Cybereyes (Alphaware) (2) w/ Flare Compensation, Image Link, Smartlink, Thermographic Vision, Vision Enhancement (2)
. . Muscle Toner (2)
. . Reaction Enhancers (Alphaware) (2)
. . Wired Reflexes (Alphaware) (1)
Vehicles:
. . GMC Bulldog Step-Van [Handling 3/3, Speed 3, Accel 1, Body 16, Armor 12, Pilot 1, Sensor 2, Seats 6]
. . . . Gear:
. . . . . . Linguistics: English (local language)
. . . . . . Linguistics: Japanese (Manufacturer's Language)
. . . . . . Rigger Cocoon
. . . . . . Rigger Interface
. . MCT Kenchiku-Kikai [Handling 2/3, Speed 2, Accel 1, Body 5, Armor 18, Pilot 2, Sensor 2/3]
. . . . Gear:
. . . . . . Drone Arm (Strength 8, Agility 2) w/ Cybergun Modification, Heavy Pistol, Cyberlimb Optimization, Munden QuickDraw, Drone Limb Agility (2), Drone Limb Strength (
. . . . . . . . Shock Hand [Unarmed, Acc 3, DV 9S(e), AP -5] w/ Internal Battery
. . . . . . Drone Arm (Strength 8, Agility 2) w/ Cyberlimb Optimization, Munden QuickDraw, Drone Limb Agility (2), Drone Limb Strength (
. . . . . . Drone Leg w/ Drone Limb Agility (2), Drone Limb Strength (5)
. . . . . . Drone Leg w/ Drone Limb Agility (2), Drone Limb Strength (5)
. . . . . . Handling Upgrade +1
. . . . . . Linguistics: English (local language)
. . . . . . Linguistics: Japanese (Manufacturer's Language)
. . . . . . Realistic Features (3)
. . . . . . Rigger Interface
. . . . . . Sensor Upgrade +1
. . . . . . Skillset: Industrial Mechanic (2)
. . . . . . Sleeping Tiger w/ Custom Fit, Gel Packs, Holster, Newest Model, Nonconductivity (6), Ruthenium Polymer Coating (3), Synergist Business Line Longcoat
. . . . Weapons:
. . . . . . Browning Ultra-Power cybergun [Heavy Pistol, Acc 5, DV 8P, AP -5, SA, 10 (c)] w/ (20x) APDS, Laser Sight, (2x) Spare Clips, (10x) Stick-n-Shock
. . . . . . Shock Hand [Unarmed, Acc 3, DV 9S(e), AP -5] w/ Internal Battery
. . MCT-Nissan Roto-drone [Handling 4, Speed 4, Accel 2, Body 4, Armor 7, Pilot 3/4, Sensor 3/4]
. . . . Gear:
. . . . . . Armor Upgrade +3
. . . . . . Clearsight (3)
. . . . . . Linguistics: English (local language)
. . . . . . Linguistics: Japanese (Manufacturer's Language)
. . . . . . Maneuvering (4)
. . . . . . Pilot (4)
. . . . . . Rigger Interface
. . . . . . Sensor Upgrade +1
. . . . . . Smartsoft
. . . . . . Stealth (4)
. . . . . . Targeting: M1 Garand (4)
. . . . . . Weapon Mount, Large w/ Expanded Ammunition Bay, Doubled, Pop-Up Concealment
. . . . Weapons:
. . . . . . M1 Garand [Sport Rifle, Acc 7, DV 12P, AP -5, SA, 8 (c)] w/ (16x) APDS, Improved Range Finder, Silencer/Suppressor, Smartgun System, Internal, Vintage
Gear:
. . Ace of Clubs w/ Holster
. . Sam w/ Fake License: Bodyware (4), Fake License: GMC Bulldog (4), Fake License: Headware (4), Fake License: KK Drone (4), Fake License: Roto-Drone (4), Fake License: Taser (4), Fake License: Vulcan Liegelord (4), Fake SIN (4), (1 month) Low Lifestyle
. . Vulcan Liegelord w/ Encryption, Shell, Signal Scrub, Sim Module, Modified for Hot Sim
Weapons:
. . Defiance EX Shocker [Taser, Acc 7, DV 9S(e), AP -5, SS, 4 (m)] w/ Personalized Grip, Smartgun System, Internal, (12x) Taser Dart
Contacts:
Smuggler (Connection 6, Loyalty 1)
Starting ¥: 190 + (3D6 × 60)¥

[PingGuy]

If I'm reading it right, you'll have a condition monitor of 11 and armor of 18 (24 electricity).  Will be rolling 15d6 for defense, and assuming an opposing AP of -4, will ignore all damage below 14DV (after net hits added to weapon DV).  For anything above that you'll soak with 19d6, again assuming AP of -4.

I'm probably off in there somewhere, but it looks pretty solid.  The real question will be how noise affects those rolls.

[Fedifensor]

Well, the RCC is running 3 programs, so that gives some noise reduction.  One of those programs is Signal Scrub, for 2 more points of noise reduction.  HeroLab gives the option to add a module, but doesn’t give any modules when you do so, so I’ll have to add a Vectored Signal Filter separately.  It also doesn’t have the Datajack Plus yet, but that can be acquired easily enough after entering play.  The one downside is that Neo-Tokyo already has 2 noise from spam.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Don't forget that RCCs have inherent Noise Reduction as well. (SR5 pg 267)

With your RCC's DR of 5, you can have up to 5 passive NR even before Signal Scrub and etc.