[Mollari]

Hi there guys

I have a question around operating electronic devices and authorisations.

It was mentioned in an earlier thread of mind that:

"You make calls by forming a persona and using the Send Message matrix action."
Jack Spade

That got me thinking. So the act of you logging on to your device and sending a message forms a persona. You don't have to be AR, or VR to send a message, but the fact that you are performing the matrix action a persona is formed and message sent.

A device can operate multiple personas. I believe these to be analogous to having character accounts on an MMO. However you need to have ownership of the device, analogous to you having the account details for the MMO game. Does this mean you can't have ownership of a matrix device without it being tied to a SIN?

Thanks guys

[Reaver]

Yes. Technically.

Since nothing can be done without a SIN, technically you need to have a SIN for everything that is above the simple barter system.

Technically, every device on the matrix has an "owner" (even if that is just "property of Corp X"), to which they are registered to, which means a SIN. 

Technically, a SIN is given at birth, to every registered birth. In practice, thanks to 2 global crashes, Economics, and plain old "screw you"ishness, many people have either lost, or never had SINs to begin with....

And without a SIN, you legally can not:

Open a bank account,
rent an apartment,
hold a legal job,
apply for a membership to anything
vote
take public transport
(and in some areas) walk down the street

Which means, you could have never legally bought your commlink in the first place - let alone a matrix subscription (yay public access!).

Which is why a fake SIN is so important... Its not just about being a criminal, its about basic survival. 

[Hobbes]

There are thousands of SINless in every 'plex that use Commlinks just fine without a fake SIN.  You don't need a SIN to form a Persona and you can perform Matrix actions just fine without a SIN or a fake SIN.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

The fact that failing to broadcast any SIN at all is criminalized in some jurisdictions (for example, SRM's Neo-Tokyo) appears to indicate that it is possible to be broadcasting a Persona without a SIN (fake or otherwise) being associated with it.  Unless of course, it's merely criminalizing not having any commlink active at all (out of Running Silent mode).  But I'd agree the former is more likely to be the case than the latter.

With regards to hacking a device so that it solicits marks on bootup... I pointed out upthread there's the inherent risk/downside of having your Persona listed in the device's code... it must necessarily be recorded on the device or else how else does it know who to invite marks from?  So long as you want to make use of those invited marks, you're necessarily at risk of being traced/counter-hacked because your digital fingerprint is clearly left behind.  If you switch your Persona, you don't get marks invited.  Q.E.D.

Now where this becomes fuzzy is beyond the short term. AFAIK SR5 is unlike some previous editions where they never went into the weeds with providing rules for things like changing your gun's barrels so as to render any forensic ballistic data you've left behind moot.  SR5 just has the Public Awareness mechanic instead.  I'd argue that PA applies to hacking as well as ballistics and biometrics.  It's moot as to whether you "change" your Persona from run to run or not because whether you do or not, your PA accrues if you do things that'd justify it accruing. Changing your fingerprints, gunbarrels, or Persona doesn't lower your PA. 

So ultimately the long-term drawback of leaving your digital fingerprint on a device thru Bootstrap is dependent on the GM, and perhaps more specifically what kind of game the campaign is.  In a Black Trenchcoat game where you're punished for using the same gear from Shadowrun to Shadowrun, sure leaving your digital fingerprint behind is probably undesireable to the point of making it worth your while to go back and re-hack the device to clear your Persona out of its memory once you no longer need those invited marks.  In a Pink Mohawk game where you use the same Minigun run after run and noone ever declares you a menace to Public Peace, leaving your traceable info behind in a boot file is also probably not a big deal.  But again even in the Pink Mohawk game, just because such things are "usually" hand waived doesn't mean there won't be a plot hook in the future hanging on what's "usually" ignored.

[Jack_Spade]

With regards to hacking a device so that it solicits marks on bootup... I pointed out upthread there's the inherent risk/downside of having your Persona listed in the device's code... it must necessarily be recorded on the device or else how else does it know who to invite marks from?  So long as you want to make use of those invited marks, you're necessarily at risk of being traced/counter-hacked because your digital fingerprint is clearly left behind.  If you switch your Persona, you don't get marks invited.  Q.E.D.

That is not what happens:

INvITE MARK
(SIMPLE ACTION)
Marks Required: Owner
Test: none (Data Processing action)
If you’re the owner of a device, file, persona, host, or IC program, you can offer other icons the opportunity to put a mark on your device, file, etc. When you make the offer, you choose the number of marks allowed, their duration, and how long the offer stands. The invitee can then mark your icon with a Free Action. You may revoke your offer at any time before the mark is placed, but once another icon has a mark, you need to either use the Erase Mark action or reboot your device to remove it before the duration you chose expires.

It's clear that you don't have to invite the MARK to a persona but only to an icon.

CHANGE ICON
(SIMPLE ACTION)
Marks Required: Owner
Test: none (Data Processing action)
You change the target’s icon to one that you have a copy of or have designed yourself. Changing an icon doesn’t change the results of a Matrix Perception action, but might fool personas who don’t take the time to inspect your new look. You can target your own icon, if you like.

So you can send the invite to a specific icon shape without revealing the persona that's behind it.
(Otherwise the whole shadowrunning thing would end pretty quickly - at least that which depends on having a persona)

[Mollari]

Hi guys

Thanks for fielding my question.

@ Hobbes
Hi there Hobbes. On the face if it I agreed with your comment. I was pretty sure that commlinks were pretty much everywhere, and the lore kinda supports that. However on closer inspection now I'm not so sure. I couldn't find any reference in the CRB on SINless and commlinks. On review of the 'Ownership' section p237 (master index edition), to steal ownership of a matrix device it's a hardware extended test with a threshold of 24 and each interval 1hr. SINless don't have that kind of skills.

Now it's entirely possible that they're communicating but not with commlinks. The items listed in the books are actually all just recommendations from jackpointers on things that are worth runners attention. There are tons of variations, brands, and stuff worse than the basic 100 nuyen commlink.

But to follow the logic. You require ownership of a persona to operate it on the matrix. You require a matrix device (commlink/DNI/deck) to form a persona. And you require ownership of the device to form a persona on it.


To bring it back to reality. I'm a GM, and I want to know if I need to require my runners to buy a fake SIN every time they want to have a burner com. Seems a bit excessive, am I missing something?

Thanks again guys.

[PiXeL01]

Why put your players through that kind of money sink unless you are playing the blackest of trench coats. Ask yourself, would that really be fun?

[Fedifensor]

A 100 nuyen Meta Link is unrestricted and has an availability of 2 - you can walk into a Stuffer Shack and buy one with a certified credstick.  Sure, the cops might stop you if they see you're not broadcasting a SIN, but it's not hard to get a commlink.  Worst case, you have the "buy beer for me" situation where someone buys the commlink for you and then you do a change ownership.


The bigger problem is getting a fake SIN to use, to make the commlink viable for public use.  A fake SIN of 1 is 2500 nuyen and an availability of 3F.  The availability check shouldn't be a huge problem, but a SINless person is going to have a hard time scraping up 2500 nuyen without doing a bunch of illegal things.


Once you have a fake SIN and the commlink, you tear open the Stuffer Shack packaging, input your fake SIN into the device to set up ownership, and you're off to the races.


You can run a commlink in silent mode, so there must be some way to form a persona and operate a commlink without broadcasting a SIN.  I figure that is how SINless people use commlinks.  They purchase a commlink that fell of a truck (ownership wiped by the criminals beforehand), or get one from a Stuffer Shack the same way people nowadays buy prepaid cell phones.  Then, they run silent.

[Mollari]

Interesting

@ PiXeL01, yes it's a very very mirror shades game. Contacts are unreliable, life is cheap and my players are loving it

@ Fedifensor, Thank you. I hadn't considered that. Much of the SINless must be running their devices either on accounts that aren't theirs, or they paid someone to transfer ownership. It's possible what SINless are doing is running a device and persona that aren't theirs. There's a comment on ownership that states that the person holding the device doesn't have to be the owner to operate it. The security guard's commlink owner would be the corp, not them.

So perhaps the SINless have pooled their nuyen together to get a single identity. That identity owns multiple devices, and the people are using devices and personas on loan.
Basically, I ask you to give me your phone. Everything from the phone to the account is yours, but I can still operate it.

Thanks guys for clearing it up and for your help. It was another small thing that just kinda stumped me.

Ta

[Michael Chandra]

What your team should mostly worry about is the fact that in some areas, not broadcasting a SIN is a crime, but broadcasting it means they know you were there... What will happen if the same SINs pop up near multiple crime scenes?

Or a Johnson gets nicked and they didn't change their commcodes, so they receive a fake call... Or their comms are spotted and traced... Having a few burners and micro-transceivers might be a good idea even without being SIN-tied.