[prismite]

This BTB quality says that the taker can choose +1DV or 2 of the 'following' options then proceeds that any option can be taken multiple times.  Do you take that to mean that the same option (say, accuracy) can be taken for both selections on the first purchase of this?

Im asking as we have a situation where a character has taken this and the subsequent PROTOTYPE MATERIAL quality for a Light Pistol and chosen -1 AP effectively 6 times. This paired with APDS and a constant Bullseye Doubletap is leading to a Light Pistol with a DV of 7 and -16 AP.

I've re-read the thing multiple times but it doesn't exclusively state rather or not this is RAW or RAI.

Thoughts?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

1) If you spend 15 karma (or 30 karma post-chargen!) to add -6 AP to one specific light pistol, more power to you.

2) when combining with 2nd order effects like APDS and Bullseye, remember the GM says how the rules interact, not the Player. That called shot increases the base AP. It doesn't factor in APDS, and if you don't want it to it doesn't have to factor in Special Modifications, either.

3) Prototype Materials explicitly calls out that it requires GM permission.  If stacking everything towards AP is an issue for you, don't give permission to Prototype Materials unless they spend the improvement on something other than AP.

[Tarislar]

While it might not be realistic...

I'm not sure its broken given for -6 AP he could have +3 DV.

Over all -6 AP will only net you 2 hits.  So he loosing 1 DV in the process.

That said it is coring though anything short of milspec armor, lol, which is funny from something .38ACP sized on "average".

So minimal chance of ever being "just" stun damage.

[Reaver]

could be worse....

It could have been an Ares alpha...

[PiXeL01]

Which seriously needs to have its availability pumped to 18

[prismite]

And Reaver has hit the crux of it, I think. While the character self-policed by selecting a Light Pistol, the discussion was had that this could have easily been put onto an SA sniper rifle and reach -28AP.

I honestly have no issue with the pistol ... but I need to be able to set a precedent with the implementation of these qualities. Steel Rat is right, of course, that it merits GM ruling. I'm just curious if anyone has run into this and what was your decision?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I haven't, but again the Doubletap only multiplies the base AP.  I'd have no qualms whatsoever saying Special Modification is applying a modifier rather than changing the raw, base AP.

[Ghost Rigger]

And Reaver has hit the crux of it, I think. While the character self-policed by selecting a Light Pistol, the discussion was had that this could have easily been put onto an SA sniper rifle and reach -28AP.

More than that if they went with a Barret Model 122. But we're both talking about items with an availability greater than twelve here. So only 3 worst case scenarios can arise here, and they're not too bad:

• The player applies Special Modification to an Ares Desert Strike at chargen.
• The player plays a 10 karma tax in the form of the Restricted Gear quality and applies Special Modification to a Ranger Arms SM5 or Barret Model 122 at chargen.
• The player applies Special Modification to a Ranger Arms SM5 or Barret Model 122 long after chargen, paying double karma for it.

[Michael Chandra]

I'd go with these two things:
- Doesn't count as 'base AP' but modifier
- Cannot be more than the base AP of the weapon

As base guidelines.

[Marcus]

The simple solution the AP double tap rules are just dumb, throw'em out. That's all optional combat rules anyway.

Without those it's no big deal ap -6 on light pistol just ain't a big deal.

[prismite]

The simple solution the AP double tap rules are just dumb, throw'em out. That's all optional combat rules anyway.

Without those it's no big deal ap -6 on light pistol just ain't a big deal.

This was my initial thought too. Wanted to see how the community handled it, though.

Thanks all!