[Shinobi Killfist]

Mixed feelings on what has been announced.

1.  New edition, well good 5e had a bad core and got worse with bloat.  And a lot of there ideas are things I've wanted though the implementation is always the issue.

2.  the new edge seems to be a mix of worthless uses for small amounts of edge to game changing uses of big uses. Not sure the maths will work out for it, i kind of doubt it given catalysts history.  Until we see the actual list, and how often you gain edge in play its hard to say.  I'm kind of against the lack of penalty dice, shooting someone when firing blind I don't think will be adequately reflected in a point or 2 of edge.  But, if it speeds up play enough it may be worth the drop in realism.

3.  1 action pass, I like the idea not sure of the the 4 minor actions to one major thing.  Assuming wired reflexes is the same 1-3 each giving 1-3 dice that means wired 1 has 3 minor actions and so can't have 2 attacks, wired 2 can have 2 attacks but gives up all minor actions including core things like moving(especially rough for a melee type), wired 3 same as 2 but one minor action for key things like moving.  Unless wired is so cheap it costs about the same as a pack of cigarettes it seems pretty damn lame.  Oh look i'm wired to the gills and marginally better than the face, woo.

4.  No force, I've felt they should go this way but i assumed it was to big of a sacred cow. Hopefully it made its way to spirits and spirits are balanced better. I'll wait to see if they got the math right. I'm curious to see if they made any attempt to balance the traditions, there is no drain stat I guess anymore but in 5e terms logic got the short straw in the admittedly super long straw pool of mages. Astral combat charisma, how many spirits, watchers, charisma, easiest side skill track charisma, logic basically did nothing, I guess you could be the first aid dude.

4.  Drain being factored into your skill success roll.  I guess one less roll is good, but I think it seems iffy math wise putting too much into one roll, i guess a good place to use edge.

5.  spells having a duration, maybe its easier? but damn it doesn't feel like shadowrun.

6.  3 times a day for healing, WTF am i playing D&D with magical uses per day.

7.  Priority system, outside of nostalgia I'm not a fan.  Though I guess it does fit their theme of more creativity through limits.

8.  Metahumans with low priority, not a fan as described.  Matahumans needed bigger differences not less, they already just felt like human with more body/str in recent editions. I'd of reduced priorities by bringing back penalty stats.

9.  Armor seems kind of weak, don't get me wrong you minds as well wear armor so you don't hand the opposition edge but at 4 to 1 rates Ares predator AV 10, body 3, i hand them 1 edge and 1 edge is like reroll one die, whopedy fucking do.  After a few passe i guess it might add up into something that matters but if the game is deadlier you are already dead so who cares. Also makes body a even stronger stat, and it was already pretty good.

10. less skills, conceptually a good idea, but how do you balance sorcery which was 3 skills with astral combat that was already just one.  Did astral combat get rolled into something like assensing?  I'm sure there are other examples but generally less skills is a good move but I hope you balanced the skill choices decently. 

Overall I'm looking forward to it, because I really hated 5e, and there is a value add to playing the current edition with things like missions being printed.  I'm a lazy DM and don't want to have to write something every week. Though they need to start selling missions as is from the convention side of things at $2 a pop, no art, no whatever just so people have shit to play.  This only for the special people stuff is just lame.

[Shinobi Killfist]

The Predator was stated as having a base damage of 3 wasn't it?  Unless there is a significant difference between the Attack dice pool and the Defense dice pool, you'll be soaking 4 or 5 damage?  So, Body 3 Mook/Mage/Squishy, is going to take 3 shots to drop if they can soak a point or two each time.  (Presuming the typical character has 10 Boxes...)

A Samurai with 5 body and Augments and a high defense pool is still going to be really tough to drop unless there is some significant dice pool boosts to Attack rolls.   I would think instead of dice pool boosts Augments, Powers, Spells, and Gear would be giving Edge?  *shrug*

Smaller dice pools does make the math easier, if more swingy.

Sure, that is not so bad for that particular example. Lets look at other common ones:

Assault rifle (yamaha raiden), base damage 5P. Burst fire takes it to 6P, full auto to 8P.

A 10 strength troll (or an augmented human) with an axe is 13P.

Without comprehensive knowledge of what damage mitigation will be available in the end, the damage I know of vs. soak potential I know of is a rough equation.

Wait heavy pistol is dmg 3, but they stuck with strength dmg for melee, I assume dit would be 1/2 str?  That's just lame if so.

[kyoto kid]

...well just finished watching a livew test of 6E over on Shadowcasters Network. 

Granted it seemed they were kind of feeling their way though the rules for the first time so things did bog down here and there and there were some question as to how some of the mechanics worked. 

One thing I did notice was grouping all the grunts together (in this case a bunch of Ancients) tends to feel somewhat like swarming and drones and thus seemed a little overpowering. as it significantly raised their effective pool and attack to where they darn near destroyed the vehicle that the team was in with handguns. 

When I mentioned that suppression fire might be a good thing to use on the pursuing gang I learned that action no longer exists.  You can go full auto on multiple targets, but you have to split your pool multiple ways and have to be aware of recoil (so much for someone like my Decker Violet giving her team a little cover fire). 

The Edge thing still seemed confusing and extra crunchy.  There was also some kind of special die one could use (forget what it was called) which further altered the outcome of an action.

Didn't get a good impression of how spellcasting worked as the mage instead had a summoned spirit and commanded it it use its accident power on a couple of the bikers.  When she first tried to summon, she took drain and no spirit appeared.

It also seemed that once you rolled initiative you kept that result for each successive combat turn, so if you rolled poorly you were stuck with it.

There was some confusion on the decker's part about the types of actions he had available based on his matrix initiative (not sure if there is still an AR mode anymore either as that was never brought up).

The one part I really didn't like though was being able to use edge to force a failure during an opposed test (or in the case of the negotiation with the Johnson during the session, negate the Edge dice the Face used during the negotiation phase). That has to go as it is not a situational modifier but seems more like a power.

They are going to run another session in two weeks after going though the rules more in depth so hopefully it will run smoother and we can get a better illustration of how things work.

[Michael Chandra]

It also seemed that once you rolled initiative you kept that result for each successive combat turn, so if you rolled poorly you were stuck with it.

Since you no longer have initiative passes, and iirc your Minors depend on your dice, not your roll, that score only matters for turn order no? No different from D&D then, and at least here there's ways to modify your score during a fight. JM Hardy indicated it was so you can be more tactical, iirc.

Going 'nope, we're both not getting any edge dice' doesn't sound that different from 'we're both using edge' so I guess it depends on the exact mechanic. When Edge is luck, both getting extra makes sense, but when Edge is literally having an edge, it makes sense that you can cancel them out.

[Redwulfe]

The Edge thing still seemed confusing and extra crunchy.  There was also some kind of special die one could use (forget what it was called) which further altered the outcome of an action.

It was called a wild die. Basically, some pieces of Equipment or qualities will allow you to roll a wild die with your normal roll. If the Wild Die comes up a 5 or 6 it counts as 3 hits. If it comes up a 1 you only count 6's for hits in your normal pool.

Honestly, it seemed like a needless mechanic that is probably ingrained into the core cost of everything that has it so just not using the die means that some things will be overcosted.

I am not a fan of Wild Dice in systems. They are meant to show luck and random swings but that is what normal dice are for os they add a flat 16% chance of just f'ing up your die roll. Seems against what dice pools are due to the mathematical outcomes of rolls. Maybe I am wrong but it seems to me that if you have a high dice pool introducing the wild die is just not worth it because it has a greater impact on your pool than what it would affect a lower dice pool. Lower dice pools probably would like it because, YOLO.

It seems to be the glitch die from Anarchy which probably fits that system but seems out of place in this one.

[adzling]

the armor mechanic looked particularly nutso.

if you get, at most, one edge for having armor *much* better than the weapon attacking you then armor is almost completely irrelevant, the GM even admitted at the end of the livestream that he liked the idea of being able to go into combat in a mankini...

if that proves out (and it seems like it does based on play example and mechanics as described) then we've left the land of realistic consequences / outcomes from being shot at.

also the crazy idea of melee weapon damage being unaffected by strength (a club wielded by a pixie does the same damage as a club wielded by a troll) is another game breaker.

if this all turns out being accurate shadowrun is dead to me...

[PiXeL01]

You are right. It does seem pretty crazy. No one will be wearing armor besides suits. I wonder if it’s another move to put a nail in the coffin of pink mohawk.

I’ll probably read it, then decide whether I’ll skip this edition as I skipped 4th

[Michael Chandra]

It was called a wild die. Basically, some pieces of Equipment or qualities will allow you to roll a wild die with your normal roll. If the Wild Die comes up a 5 or 6 it counts as 3 hits. If it comes up a 1 you only count 6's for hits in your normal pool.

So basically "Are you ready to risk everything?". Damn! =D "Stand up, join them, and dare to risk it all!"

As for armor, I don't have ANY intent of giving away any Edge dice to my enemies. I'd rather out-armor their guns so heavily that they give ME Edge instead.

[PiXeL01]

What’s the point of having edge if they kill you because a tear soaked tissue offers more soak value than your mil-grade armor

[Michael Chandra]

What’s the point of having edge if they kill you because a tear soaked tissue offers more soak value than your mil-grade armor

That's assuming Mil-grade armor will not have special abilities.

[adzling]

but walking around armor is now almost pointless.

also melee weapons no longer require strength?

please advise that i'm wrong, or that this somehow makes sense / works?

[PiXeL01]

I guess we have to wait until June when the quick start rules appear. Everybody is still under NDAs I bet.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I know armor doesn't contribute to soak pools.. so what IS the soak pool in 6e? Or isn't there one?

From what I've gathered so far armor is integral to defense rating, and in turn defense rating factors into edge generation. And edge in turn is a major thing in 6e.

Besides that "downhill" benefit to armor, defense rating may also have relevance to factors beyond edge generation/denial.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

It was called a wild die. Basically, some pieces of Equipment or qualities will allow you to roll a wild die with your normal roll. If the Wild Die comes up a 5 or 6 it counts as 3 hits. If it comes up a 1 you only count 6's for hits in your normal pool.

So basically "Are you ready to risk everything?". Damn! =D "Stand up, join them, and dare to risk it all!"

As for armor, I don't have ANY intent of giving away any Edge dice to my enemies. I'd rather out-armor their guns so heavily that they give ME Edge instead.

I think this is going underappreciated by some. As MC says, if armor is giving me a point of edge that otherwise would have gone to you, that's huge when edge is the metagame currency.

[PiXeL01]

Well, soak is pure Body now it seems. Maybe the possibility to add edge