[Ixal]

The armor thing seems like a dealbreaker to me. Makes infiltrating places too easy when you can put everyone in overalls and be 100% combat effective.
The 3/day healing smells too much like D&D to me. Shadowrun should imo be about getting in and out quick instead of crawling through enemy waves with constant healing in between. Although maybe that is offset by the lack of armor soak. Still a different limit than x/day would have been better.
Maybe turn it around and make soak armor only and body is how often you can get healed?

Overall I fear they have gone too much towards "streamlining", sacrificing too much Shadowrun in places. Metas not being different than humans, strength no counting for damage, armor being semi-useless.
Unless they manage to pull some amazing thing out of a hat I don't see how 6E would be an improvement over 5E or 4E.

About the edge system, I would be more happy if the edge you gain with an action could only be used for said action but then without limit (or at least a higher one) while edge from your attribute is universal.
But I have to play it myself to decide if edge works out in SR6 or not.

Why would I ever want to throw a wild die? 1/6 chance to screw up the roll is a tad high to really risk it.

[Iron Serpent Prince]

People who want to min max min max. Flaws don’t change that. But hey tall human decker sounds so different from short human decker.

Of course.  Because min-maxing is the exclusive right of min-maxers only, and only min-maxers would be on the other side of this conversation, right?

But if you need different numbers written in a book to ensure you make diverse characters, that is entirely on you.

It might have the exact opposite effect, making metas even less attractive.

Oh, it very well might.  This is CGL we are talking about here.
However, I happen to like the reasoning I assume is behind the metahuman change.

The part I'm worried about is the third of the world that CGL has already proven they are terrible at.  The Matrix.  They are chill-inducing quiet about that side of the game world.  Sure, they removed MARKs from the game, and they are rumored to have removed PANs/WANs.  That doesn't mean that side of the system works though...

[Hobbes]

Why would I ever want to throw a wild die? 1/6 chance to screw up the roll is a tad high to really risk it.

For low skill users.  If I understand correctly the Wild Die is added by specific things, not every dice roll.  The Face or Decker with 8 to 10 Dice in Firearms would probably go ahead and grab something with a Wild Die.  10 or less Dice is going to miss frequently enough that the Wild Die gamble of 3 Extra hits could seem like a good idea.

Really, anything with a low to moderate dice pool trying something hard may find the Wild Die appealing.  Especially if its something the player can control by turning on/turning off or using a different weapon or tool (or whatever).  We'll know in three months. 

[Ixal]

Why would I ever want to throw a wild die? 1/6 chance to screw up the roll is a tad high to really risk it.

For low skill users.  If I understand correctly the Wild Die is added by specific things, not every dice roll.  The Face or Decker with 8 to 10 Dice in Firearms would probably go ahead and grab something with a Wild Die.  10 or less Dice is going to miss frequently enough that the Wild Die gamble of 3 Extra hits could seem like a good idea.

Really, anything with a low to moderate dice pool trying something hard may find the Wild Die appealing.  Especially if its something the player can control by turning on/turning off or using a different weapon or tool (or whatever).  We'll know in three months.

One source of wild die are Positive Qualities like Overclocker (+2 die to Matrix actions, one of them a wild die).
And I can't really imagine someone with a low matrix pool grabbing this quality.

By the way, according to the log I follow Hardened Armor works like in SR5, meaning autosoak (except equal to the rating and not rating/2) and spirits have it. Although the source is unconfirmed.

[Ghost Rigger]

People who want to min max min max. Flaws don’t change that. But hey tall human decker sounds so different from short human decker.

Of course.  Because min-maxing is the exclusive right of min-maxers only, and only min-maxers would be on the other side of this conversation, right?

But if you need different numbers written in a book to ensure you make diverse characters, that is entirely on you.

If you can't make a diverse set of characters who all happen to have armor jackets and custom ballistics masks/helmets, then you're in the same boat as the OP of that thread and that is not a seaworthy vessel. Just saying.

[Michael Chandra]

[...], then you're in the same boat as the OP of that thread and that is not a seaworthy vessel. Just saying.

No need to insult Chalkarts when they're not even involved in this debate.

I hope Human still has something going for them other than rp stuff but we'll see. Given how many groups I get skills from, chargen will become a challenge for my minmaxing self anyway.

[Iron Serpent Prince]

If you can't make a diverse set of characters who all happen to have armor jackets and custom ballistics masks/helmets, then you're in the same boat as the OP of that thread and that is not a seaworthy vessel. Just saying.

While you are so quick to "just say," you failed to realize that I didn't say anything about the characters not being diverse.

Only the assembly line choice of gear, or chosen metaspecies.

[Ixal]

I hope Human still has something going for them other than rp stuff but we'll see. Given how many groups I get skills from, chargen will become a challenge for my minmaxing self anyway.

Humans probably still have Edge as special attribute they get to raise when using a higher priority for metatype while all others only get to raise normal attributes. Not sure how much of an effect that would have with metatype E.

[Shinobi Killfist]

People who want to min max min max. Flaws don’t change that. But hey tall human decker sounds so different from short human decker.

Of course.  Because min-maxing is the exclusive right of min-maxers only, and only min-maxers would be on the other side of this conversation, right?

But if you need different numbers written in a book to ensure you make diverse characters, that is entirely on you.

At my computer now instead of my phone so hopefully i can get the quote thing right.

Its 2 less dice form stats as a troll.  The mechanical effect is minimal, it has no effect on diversity by having 2 less dice.  Having a hard coded limitation built into your character is a thematic effect though and fighting that and going against type does effect diversity. The issues arise form the crappy priority system where picking B Troll makes it hard to get decent skills and enough nuyen because they over inflated the monetary costs of being a decker in 5e. It was still doable to make a perfectly viable Troll in 5e under priority, just not a obvious design choice. But use the point buy or life path system and troll has virtually no mechanical hurdle.  Whitewashing Trolls into tall human seems like a poor answer to the priority system.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I hope Human still has something going for them other than rp stuff but we'll see. Given how many groups I get skills from, chargen will become a challenge for my minmaxing self anyway.

Humans probably still have Edge as special attribute they get to raise when using a higher priority for metatype while all others only get to raise normal attributes. Not sure how much of an effect that would have with metatype E.

From what they have said anyone can get to 7 edge through bonus points, no one can surpass it(maybe a quality lets you go past) and they seem to flow somewhat freely, so having a possible starting edge of 7 seems kind of a waste.

[Shinobi Killfist]

The armor thing seems like a dealbreaker to me. Makes infiltrating places too easy when you can put everyone in overalls and be 100% combat effective.
The 3/day healing smells too much like D&D to me. Shadowrun should imo be about getting in and out quick instead of crawling through enemy waves with constant healing in between. Although maybe that is offset by the lack of armor soak. Still a different limit than x/day would have been better.
Maybe turn it around and make soak armor only and body is how often you can get healed?

It might totally work mechanically, but i'm not sure I like the thematic effects with armor being so weak.

[Ghost Rigger]

While you are so quick to "just say," you failed to realize that I didn't say anything about the characters not being diverse.

Only the assembly line choice of gear, or chosen metaspecies.

Having very standard armor choices is good though. It leaves more time and mental energy for gun, sword and vehicle porn. That's where you get your real gear diversity anyways.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I'll avoid passing judgement until I see the system myself, but of all the things I've heard so far it's not particularly high on my list of concerns.

How dare you not outrage! You are harming the Torch&Pitchfork industry! Turn in your fake SIN!

I think judging the thing as a whole is not a good idea.  I'm actually hopeful of 6e overall.  I've argued for some of the changes though maybe not with the exact same implementation for a while.  So there are some things that look really good to me here. Some rules changes I'm flat out against as I think they damage the setting, which is SRs strongest suit. A bad thing here and there though doesn't kill a game.

[Iron Serpent Prince]

Having very standard armor choices is good though. It leaves more time and mental energy for gun, sword and vehicle porn. That's where you get your real gear diversity anyways.

So you are championing 6e then?
They (appear to) have removed all the need to spend time and mental energy on armor and metespecies, yes?


And by the way, there isn't all that much diversity in gun, sword, or vehicles either.  I won't go into the cookie cutter choices here, but there are certainly there.

[Ghost Rigger]

You don't spend time or mental energy on armor choice in 5e though. Just pick up an armor jacket and a helmet and go, unless you care about your social modifiers, in which case you look through the armor chapter of Run&Gun and pick something from a short list of options.