[theclaw]

Hi everyone

I'm not new at SR but new at GMing it

I've got a player whose character has some bioware. He wants to upgrade some (a better version or a better level). I found the rule that says how many injury boxes the character will get post surgery. But I can't find the rule that explains the essence changes. If you get a better version of an implant (let's say it costs 0.8 essence instead of 1) do you get the essence difference back ? If not, is there a point ?

Thanks !

[Ghost Rigger]

do you get the essence difference back?

No.

If not, is there a point ?

The point is that you have an essence hole of 0.2, which means you can take 0.2 essence worth of more augmentations before losing any more essence.

[Spooky]

do you get the essence difference back?

No.

If not, is there a point ?

The point is that you have an essence hole of 0.2, which means you can take 0.2 essence worth of more augmentations before losing any more essence.

This is RAW. In order to simplify the bookkeeping, I have my tables just get the essence back. It's easier all the way around, but it is a house rule. Also, in my experience, players who upgrade quality and get an essence hole, usually fill it and more with more stuff, so it's frequently not an issue.

[Michael Chandra]

do you get the essence difference back?

No.

If not, is there a point ?

The point is that you have an essence hole of 0.2, which means you can take 0.2 essence worth of more augmentations before losing any more essence.

This is RAW. In order to simplify the bookkeeping, I have my tables just get the essence back. It's easier all the way around, but it is a house rule. Also, in my experience, players who upgrade quality and get an essence hole, usually fill it and more with more stuff, so it's frequently not an issue.

Essence features into Social Limit and healing penalties, so that would be impacted this way. Given how lore-wise essence-regaining is supposed to be real expensive, handwaving might work but it takes away flavour.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Yeah, but Social Limit is nigh meaningless with the number of ways you can increase it.

[Marcus]

Keep in mind essence loss isn't granular. At Essence 6 .1 essence loss is the same as 1 essence loss as far as the system is concerned.
Essence loss primarily effect magical healing, first aid stills works just fine. I agree that Social limit penalty is effectively meaningless at this stage in 5e. Jacking social limit above what most characters are going to roll is not complex beyond very early exposure to the system.

Frankly i wouldn't get caught up with implant rules. That's just more trouble then it's worth. The Life style cost on time is plenty of cost.

Essence holes are classic, and very rarely a problem. I'm sure  your player can find piece of ware to fill it with.

[Tarislar]

"You can't put the egg back in the shell"


Or something like that.


Once the meat is gone, its gone.

[Jareth Valar]

"You can't put the egg back in the shell"


Or something like that.


Once the meat is gone, its gone.

Technically you can...kinda.
Revitalization from Chrome Flesh (p. 157) will let you restore your essence hole. Very slowly and expensively, but possible.

[Cabral]

Hi everyone

I'm not new at SR but new at GMing it

I've got a player whose character has some bioware. He wants to upgrade some (a better version or a better level). I found the rule that says how many injury boxes the character will get post surgery. But I can't find the rule that explains the essence changes. If you get a better version of an implant (let's say it costs 0.8 essence instead of 1) do you get the essence difference back ? If not, is there a point ?

Thanks !

I apologize, but I don't feel like looking it up right now, but I believe the different grades are give better secondary stats, such as device rating, but I may be thinking of an older edition.

[theclaw]

Hi all

OK I get it now, I didn't "see" the essence hole.

So yeah, my player will find stuff to put in there for sure

Aren't the recovery time a bit low ? Well I guess I have to keep in mind the tremendous progress of medicine and also the high Body scores some metatypes may have.

[Overbyte]

"You can't put the egg back in the shell"

Or something like that.

Once the meat is gone, its gone.

The thing that is bothersome about this idea is.. cultured limb replacements have "no discernible impact on the user's body integrity" (CF 118).
Which means you clearly CAN grow cultured tissue replacements which replace (almost all) the lost essence for a limb.

[mcv]

The thing that is bothersome about this idea is.. cultured limb replacements have "no discernible impact on the user's body integrity" (CF 118).
Which means you clearly CAN grow cultured tissue replacements which replace (almost all) the lost essence for a limb.

It's not the loss of the limb that costs you essence, it's putting something else in its place. I don't think someone with a birth defect is also short on Essence, are they? But correct it with bioware or cyberware, and part of you is not really you anymore. But if it's cloned from your own unmodified tissue, it's still you.

At least that's my interpretation.

[Overbyte]

But then.. you could remove your cyberarm, get a clonal replacement and get back all the essence. Or any other organ for that matter.

[Michael Chandra]

But then.. you could remove your cyberarm, get a clonal replacement and get back all the essence. Or any other organ for that matter.

But once gone it's gone.

[Overbyte]

"Once gone it's gone" doesn't really answer the problem.

You are saying that if you lop off all your arms you don't lose any essence.. but if you replace them with clonal replacements you do.

So if you lose your hand you lose no essence, but if you use a hook you do? Does the hook have to be "attached" or does a strap-on still cause essence loss?

This makes very little sense to me and has very little logic.
If you want to say that essence loss is not logical.. OK.. but it makes it hard to decide how to rule on things if there is no logic to it.

I get that there is a game mechanic here that is important for balance, but you also need something that makes sense.
I think for my money.. if you get rid of the cyberware and replaced everything you took out with clonal replacements.. at the very least your essence would be restored over time since your body is being restored to something very close to original (as is indicated by the small essence loss from clonal).

"I don't think someone with a birth defect is also short on Essence, are they? But correct it with bioware or cyberware, and part of you is not really you anymore."

For instance, someone born without arms (I know someone like this)... if you "correct" that.. they never had arms before so the part of them that is "not them anymore" was never a part of them. So why would they lose essence at all in this case?