[Redwulfe]

Sorry if my last post seemed kind of rantish, I was not trying to offend. I reread it after posting and though I don't wan t to change its meaning I don't want anyone to feel I am trying to be accusatory of the OP or others here on this forum.

The point I wanted to make is that the world and the story corrects these broken combos usually, and it is up to the GM to bring these things into game.
Hers an example of what I'm talking about.

GM (to group at start of session): "You've been out of work for a month now and it seems that though the word on the street says there's jobs to be had you aren't getting any. Go ahead a subtract a months worth of expenditures and deal with the SOTA on your programs and gear."
Player (To GM): "Can I call my fixer to see WTF?"
GM (to Player): "Sure, you call him up and it goes straight to vid mail."

time passes as the game session turns into find the Fixer. they finally locate him after an hour of trying to track him down, its almost as if he is avoiding the team. finally they meet.
 
Player (face): "So, You gotta job for us? I haven't heard from you in weeks? rent don't pay itself. "
GM (Fixer): "Listen, You guys are good and very effective your rigger is top notch, but it is also why you ain't got a job. He's too easy to shut down and I gotta pay rent too, failed jobs don't pay rent. Now I may have something coming up soon that will be right up your ally. but it's a good news bad news type of situation. Good news its a job that you guys can easily handle, in fact for your team with that rigger its a cakewalk, bad news is it don't pay much because it is a bone I through to new teams to try them out. My loyalty to you though is giving you priority. My advice is dump the rigger for a rigger that's less of a one trick pony and I got jobs lined up around the corner that I can put you on. but in the real world you face hackers and other riggers and they all got your chummer's number, if you know what I mean."

Now I don't like this strong hand approach myself but it is the way I think it would play out. I try to circumvent the situation by talking with the player that is going this route.

GM(to player): "Hey I don't think you want to put all of your ability on just the drone thing. If an enemy hacker, and believe me there are lots of them in the SR world, faces you you could be locked out of playing for a time period trying to get your drones up and running again. By that time the combat could be over. maybe you should try and have some backup skills so you can be with the team and if you get shut out you still won't be out of the game."

If it is already a problem in the game then I would talk to the player as well. Most people are reasonable, given the chance everyone just wants to play and have fun, not dominate the game and cause others to not have fun.

The world balances these riggers, You won't find it in the rules.

Red

[CanRay]

"Attitude" will hopefully help with that.

Microdrones are useful for a lot of uses in recon work obviously, but they can do so much more.

One game had my group trying to hack Lone Star with a Worm to get access to their Medium Security Personnel Files during their back-up process.  They learned that it's easier to get around the security if they access through an active node...  Like, oh, say, a Cop Car!

So, they got the Hacker in the back seat with a Crawler Microdrone hidden on him and a long spool of cable for his datajack (His CommLink is cybernetically installed.), a Second-Hand Laser Eye cut through the barrier between the back seat and the front, and a crawl away to being inside the system.  Done.

Equip one with a laser microphone, and you got a long-range bug that can listen in on anything that vibrates when voices hit it.  (Just hope they didn't get ice in their drink.).  That's an old trick, dating back to "Into The Shadows", however.

Even conventional uses for them are useful.  Why climb around your building with network cable when you can have the Microdrone do it, and do it inside the walls at that.  The Security Team will be hitting the wrong apartment, wrong floor, even the wrong building entirely while you're warned about the situation and able to do the bug-out-boogie.  After arming Mr. Thermite Firebomb, of course.  Mr. Thermite Firebomb is your friend when you have to abandon a squat.

Or even make some cred/contacts on the side using your drones to pull power lines around old buildings to re-wire them for electricity after they've been stripped, it'll make your squat more comfortable, and your neighbors will like you better, always handy.  Or do it for other buildings.  Or strip abandoned buildings, with yourself running security.  A Shadowrunner is often better equipped than any salvager.  The usefulness of electrical cable should be easy enough to see for a bunch of folks like us.  If not, well, it's also copper, good to sell for some sloppies and a soycaf at the Stuffer Shack.

Basically, anywhere you can't fit a short Dwarf or a skinny Elf, you can get a Microdrone, and that can be quite useful at times.  It's not always about combat ability.  One advantage to Drones Vs. Flesh.

[KarmaInferno]

Riggers are "easy to shut down" only if they're stupid, caught unprepared, or both.

First off, don't Jump In unless you absolutely have to. Jumping in turns your meat body into a liability. It also makes you dependent on the drones instead of just having them as useful tools. Jumping in is occasionally necessary, but using AR Remote Control the rest of the time is nearly as good and lets you stay active so you don't need a babysitter.

Number one way to avoid wireless hacking of your drones: Don't use radio. There are microwave and laser links for a reason, use them whenever possible. Not only are they impossible to hack unless the hacker actually gets directly in the beam with a tap, they don't broadcast the presence of a node. My rigger specifically has a set of cloaked flyspys with laser and microwave links to serve as relay nodes so my other drones can operate around corners. They also let me run the team's communications so those don't show up as matrix nodes either. Yes, this does mean actually traveling with your team instead of sitting in the van three blocks away. Suck it up, this is what it means to play the big boy games.

Second, if you must use radio based wireless, it's possible to load drones and your control comms with just as much defense as any hacker. If you skimp on matrix defense it's your own damn fault. It's possible to layer defenses on so thick it'd take hours for even a good hacker to penetrate.

Third, you can only directly control one drone at a time. Make sure the rest of the drones are at least decently equipped to handle themselves without your constant input. That means upgrading software and hardware. Again, you get what you pay for.

That's just off the top of my head. There's a lot of other tricks and strategies to keep from getting shut down, you just have to look.


-k

[CanRay]

Drone Legwork!  Can't believe I forgot about this one, they even make fun of it in the sourcebook fiction (Picture of Slamm-0! in his undies due to his cleaning drone!).

Want to know about a target?  Does (s)he have a routine?  How (s)he lives?  What (s)he eats?  All that good stuff?  Household Drones likely aren't loaded up with security software (Pre-Emergence at least.), and will have all that info loaded into them.  The CHN (Central Home Node, Runner's Companion, Page 150) will probably be harder to hack, but the Drones themselves not so difficult, and they'd have access through the Firewall of the CHN that won't be secured as well unless the target knows their computer security.

You can tell a lot about a person just by what they eat.  And, if you can get into the CHN, well, you can get in the front door (Use the front door.  Security knows that back doors are the preferred entrance for criminals and will watch it more.), lace something in the Drip/Perk Soycaf Machine, and just let things take their natural course.

[Redwulfe]

@KarmaInferno -great name BTW
Yes, you are right proper planning keeps runners alive, but riggers are easy to shut down if they do as the OP meant, that the Rigger is in relative security several blocks away, he was completely forgoing the meat body because it was useless to him, and that it was power game because it could be done with a brand new rigger. or that was my assumption of the OPs intent, you know how assumptions go. UV wants to know, Why would you just not forgo the meatbody and just use drones? because in my opinion a rigger like that is to easy to take out by things he would encounter in everyday work.

The rigger you propose would be different but not impossible to take down. The jobs he would be troubled by would be the jobs he would need to go on to keep up his SOTA, not the milk runs he could easily pass by, they won't pay enough.

The unfortunate part is, beam links won't work as neither the sender or receiver can move during transmission (Unwired P.51), these types of links just slow you down. you your relay and the drone you control all have to stop moving to get the command sent. In my games you can use them but due to the stopping of motion you may only use them to remote command and not in AR control or by jumping in. because if they move you lose connection. not only that but you have to send along with the command the drone is getting a time for it to stop and get its next command. If you don't you will have to wait until it stops on its own to get its next command. you could put a wireless node in it to act as a backup but then you are once again prone to being hacked. Yes beam links are harder to intercept but they are just harder not impossible, even hacking a slaved connection is only a +2 modifier. You need the beam transmitter and I give a +2 to try and spoof, but once again you can't hit a moving target so you have to time it to send as the receiver stops to receive its next command. Harder not impossible. Just hold your action and give me a test to time it right. Laser links can be interfered with by fog, rain or large burst of light like a flash pack. Microwaves can be stopped by anything metal getting in between the two devices, like a interior blast door, but then again so can a laser beam. Why you may ask, because microwaves bounce off of metal and they are also absorbed by vegetables and food so it would also be susceptible to signal degradation do to sculpted terrain as well as large cafeterias.

The point is nothing is foolproof, that applying the real world to it can't balance.

Your rigger seems very diverse and that is what makes him great. Please don't think that I'm down on your rigger he is a perfect example of the kind of outside the box style thinker that chimera was talking about. Its a IQ creep not a power creep, or at least that is what i think Chimera was talking about. He will be able to deal with all of the problems set before him but he will not be able to just walk through a mod unscathed, which makes him balanced.

@CanRay
I think Drone recon is the best use for them.

Red

[Exodus]

I was chatting with a fellow GM at a nearby college, might play  couple games with him for the whole 'other side of the fence' feeling.
Anyway, this is how he dealt with a power rigger almost exactly like the one described in the OP.
First, Drones are basically nodes with frames so they have node stats, including subscription requirements for many actions and System and Response limiting the running of too much software
Second, the rig is still a commlink and in order to get the 5IPs described in the OP you have to be running hot sim.

So what do you do with these tidbits? First, hack/spoof the primary drone so the Rigger has to jump in personally or risk his heavy hitter turning on him. You otherwise need to get the rigger to signal the drone or vice-versa. Then the hacker runs a trace to find the access ID and the Rigger's location within 50 meters or so. Alternatively you can simply take a few moments to search for a hidden node.

Once you have the location of the Rigger's rig/commlink you can get to work, even with a good firewall (rating 5-6) and disabled user accounts you can still get Admin (ROOT) fairly easily. Once you're in you just need to remember that cybercombat is best when you go at the target sideways, crash his programs, nuke him, viruses/worms, corrupt agents, attach data bombs his files/programs, encrypt his stuff. It took time for me to educate my players that cybercombat is more than a gunfight on a server.

[CanRay]

Another thing, if you know which drone a Rigger is in, Off-Line it as fast as you can.  Dumpshock is a major problem, and the remaining drones will be on old orders, with a possibility of not getting new ones if the Dumpshock is bad enough.

Even if it isn't, if you got a few people with Olfactory Sensors, just follow the smell of vomit.  Old Hunter's Trick, always make sure you can track your prey with your own senses, rather than relying on other tactics.  Tracks can be old, CommLinks can be spoofed or re-routed.  You think you're sending an Anti-Personnel Rocket into the Rigger's location when all you're getting is a Retransmission Unit the group put into place to prevent such a tactic.  You see the target, however, well, you know the rocket's going where it's supposed to.

Of course, you should be using said rocket on the Magician.  "Geek The Mage First" after all.

[Kontact]

Encryption makes wireless untraceable if you control both sides of the connection.

Initiate Cryptanalysis is an extended test which takes 1CT to accomplish and needs to score Ratingx2 hits where the rating is based on the Encryption program it's trying to break down.. which should be 6.

So, an enemy should be looking at a threshold 12 test that takes 1CT per attempt.


Okay.
Now, Encrypt is a Simple action, which needs a corresponding Decrypt action on the other end.
This encryption process lasts until you say it stops.
However, it can be restarted, with new keys, every single combat turn.
Because, each turn, it's a different cipher to break, this forces an enemy hacker to score 12 hits on a single roll in order to crack the Encryption, which must be dome before one is able to capture your traffic, get your ID and Track you down.
Oh, but wait!  If he broke the cipher, that took his entire CT, so he has no passes left to try and capture your signal, and, what's this?  A NEW CIPHER!  Too late!
The only way to do it would be to score 12 hits in a roll, then spend Edge to go first in the next IP (or just be faster) during which you Run a Signal capture.  Now, because you've got their traffic, you should be able to get the encrypt keys each time they're sent, so you only need to use a simple action to decrypt and then a complex action to run the Trace.

Variable encryption is an easy maintenance thing outside of combat.  Pilots and Agents can handle it automatically.
In combat, your rigger still has plenty of IPs to act while continuing to actively scrambling all wireless traffic.  Or, you know, Agent again.  Just use a gateway comm to route all your main comm traffic through, via wired connection. 
Likewise,an Agent can do this for non techs, while it also continuously analyzes their link.


Hooray!  Variable encryption saves the day!

Really, the only way someone can break your comms is if the GM decides they should for story reasons.  So if you don't like how someone is playing, don't try to box them with the rules all passive aggressive like.  Instead talk to them.   Be a damn grown up.

[Exodus]

How would you sync up the encrypt/decrypt keys over multiple devices without using a table of potential keys? You obviously can't send the key over the encrypted link or else you're at risk of a quick crack.

If you use the table method then every drone you operate has a key to your operation, if their node is breached through a direct hack or even salvage of a damaged drone.

And of course, EMP.

As a GM I feel that if the runners tackle most or all of their runs with a similar style then the Inter-Corp Dossier on them would reflect that. Unless they were prodigiously subtle. In my games the Players like having to vary their tactics but I've never had to deal with a player that works too hard for combat prowess stay in that mindset.

Edit: Since firing just about anything from a drone uses the Gunnery skill how efficient would a drone mounted with a HERF gun be?

[Redwulfe]

Before I reply I want to preface my post with i do not think you are advocating that Riggers are unstoppable, nor would I squash a rigger due to him being clever or smart. I would however start giving the team tougher jobs that pay better though. Any fixer worth his salt sends his best team on the better jobs. and this rigger is on the ball hopefully his team is as well. that being said I will take this post to show how the tougher job could handle this type of rigger to bring him into balance for the game.

 

Encryption makes wireless untraceable if you control both sides of the connection.

I don't think that is true. It does make it harder to access but you can still detect the node or the signal you just can't access it without first initiating a cryptanalysis. and once you have decrypted the node you can log on and locate its GPS information to find it. Or if you wish to trace the signal you just need to decrypt the signal before running the trace.

As far as making the rigger unbalanced or unstoppable, both of which you are not claiming but I wish to continue the thread topic, with landscaping for signal attenuation can reduce the signal by 2-5 points and this is not effected by ECCM. This would force the rigger to be very close to his drones or lose signal altogether. Most higher security buildings that runners would need to break into would have not only this but also the possibility of Wireless Negation wallpaper and such inside there building. They would also have hard wired security systems to not degrade there own signals. This forces the Rigger into the area and makes it balanced because he is there in danger withe the rest of the party. He also relies on the hacker to help out and the rest of the team to keep him going if they want the drone backups. But this is balanced and not the uber-rigger power game that makes a rigger a one-man team. If the signal is to hard to hack kill the meatbody or force him to be on sight so he is in as much danger as the next guy.

Initiate Cryptanalysis is an extended test which takes 1CT to accomplish and needs to score Ratingx2 hits where the rating is based on the Encryption program it's trying to break down.. which should be 6.

So, an enemy should be looking at a threshold 12 test that takes 1CT per attempt.

Unless the hacker rushes the job and then it would take half the time. So, in my game, for every two of his initiative passes he would get a roll. Brings it a bit down but still does not make it great for the hacker. All in all it just means that shooting the rigger is the better option, which he is reliant on his team to stop and again brings balance to the rigger.

Okay.
Now, Encrypt is a Simple action, which needs a corresponding Decrypt action on the other end.
This encryption process lasts until you say it stops.
However, it can be restarted, with new keys, every single combat turn.
Because, each turn, it's a different cipher to break, this forces an enemy hacker to score 12 hits on a single roll in order to crack the Encryption, which must be dome before one is able to capture your traffic, get your ID and Track you down.
Oh, but wait!  If he broke the cipher, that took his entire CT, so he has no passes left to try and capture your signal, and, what's this?  A NEW CIPHER!  Too late!
The only way to do it would be to score 12 hits in a roll, then spend Edge to go first in the next IP (or just be faster) during which you Run a Signal capture.  Now, because you've got their traffic, you should be able to get the encrypt keys each time they're sent, so you only need to use a simple action to decrypt and then a complex action to run the Trace.

most of this is very true the only thing that isn't is that you would need to run encrypt on your comlink node, the drone node, the signal and decrypt the signal at both ends as well.  That's 5 simple actions to maintain the link in full encryption. If you don't encrypt the node the hacker can log on and crash the node. If you don't encrypt the signal then the hacker can spoof the signal and issue false commands to the drone. now since this is Uber-rigger, we will assume that he has slaved the Drones Node to  the Comlink as well just in case.

Variable encryption is an easy maintenance thing outside of combat.  Pilots and Agents can handle it automatically.
In combat, your rigger still has plenty of IPs to act while continuing to actively scrambling all wireless traffic.  Or, you know, Agent again.  Just use a gateway comm to route all your main comm traffic through, via wired connection. 
Likewise,an Agent can do this for non techs, while it also continuously analyzes their link.


Hooray!  Variable encryption saves the day!

I wouldn't call it easy, you have to maintain two agents one on the comm and one on the drone if you are commanding the drone via the command program, you can't use the pilot of the drone as it is suppressed by the command program. If you jump in I think you suppress the pilot as well but I could be wrong.  So that is 1 program running on each. you have to have encrypt and decrypt on each so that they are running so that is 3 programs running on each.  To have Encrypt of 6 the pilot of the agent has to be 6 and both nodes have to have a 6 system to be able to run a rating 6 pilot, and to not have your system set lower and thereby stopping your ability to run rating 6 programs you have to have a response of 6. now the Rigger has to use Command on his comm or be subscribed to the drones node to be jumped in. either way one of the devices is now at 4 programs running against its program limit, only two left for its response to drop including its system then and to have all of the rating 6 programs to reduce there effectiveness on the node. not a big concern but it is a concern as it drops the target numbers on enemy hacking attempts. Both devices should be running analyse to detect hacking attempts just in case the hacker comes on to the node, it could happen as you see below. That's 5 on one and 4 programs on the other. If the rigger is in AR he can only control the one drone with his command program and everything he does is complex, and he doesn't have as many IPs as he would if he was jumped in. If he is jumped in then his body is out there somewhere and you have a problem of not being close to the drone and possibly losing signal due to landscaping and wireless negation. On top of this the order in your initiative becomes really trick as you have to have your agents go at the same time to keep one from encrypting while the other decrypts or your signal is intermittent. Not that big of a deal as dropping the encryption on one would not drop encryption on the other. All in all this is not as unbalanced as it seems.

Really, the only way someone can break your comms is if the GM decides they should for story reasons.  So if you don't like how someone is playing, don't try to box them with the rules all passive aggressive like.  Instead talk to them.   Be a damn grown up.

The first part not really you can use the rules to bring them into balance or break them if you wish, but you should never break them. It is not passive aggressive to challenge the players withe the world of the game. In fact it is your job to present them a challenge and entertain them, or at least that is my opinion. I fully agree that you should not break them or box them in with no way to play that is a total douche move. I also agree that if you feel that they are a problem player due to there uber-rigger appearance and someone is not having fun you should talk to them instead of hammering them. Good call Kontact.

the reason i am going to lengths to show rules walk around that make since, to me at least, in the world is to show that these riggers are balanced when you apply the world and the rules to them. and there is no reason that a player should not be allowed to play that character. Let your players know that you encourage them to build uber builds and then the jobs will be harder and the payouts will also increase. but the goal is to have fun. If someone is ruining that for someone by not being balanced then talk to the player tell him that you can balance the character in game so he can continue to play but you just wanted to give him a heads up that the rigging will get a bit tougher because of his ingenuity. if he doesn't want that then ask him to tone it down for the sake of the group or play something new and let his old character go off in infamy.

The reason I post how the rules can be used to stop these uber builds is to show was that the GM can increase the challenge, not to be antagonistic towards the players and if I am wrong at some point please let me know as i am still learning as well and would like to have those mistakes pointed out to me. to me this is a friendly debate and I like it, if I seem to aggressive let me know as it is not my intent to be antagonistic. I sometimes am a bit to aggressive.
Red

[Kontact]

How would you sync up the encrypt/decrypt keys over multiple devices without using a table of potential keys? You obviously can't send the key over the encrypted link or else you're at risk of a quick crack.

So sending encryption keys over an encrypted channel is risky?  Not according to the rules. 
Turns out that encrypted communications are a pretty safe way to send stuff.

As to taking 5 actions, I outlined that.
Encryption doesn't take skill.  A R1 agent on a spare link can handle this for you.
Encrypt, is a simple action which includes setting and sending the encryption keys.  This is done once and applies to all subscribed channels which you decide it does in the same manner that Issuing a Command applies to whatever number of devices can receive that command.  It only needs to be done on one side of the connection.
Decrypt is a simple action which includes taking the encryption keys and applying them to the signal.  This is done once by each device on the receiving end.  It takes up a simple action.  If you are directly controlling this drone, it takes one of your actions.  The other simple action can be used to run an Analyze test, which is also important to catch hacks early.


The biggest threat to a rigger is brute force hacking.  If a solid hacker scans the drone's ID, which is inevitable, then he can Hack on the Fly.  And if he's not terrible at it, he can break in before the alarm goes off using a the Mute option on his program, or the "I'm a Technomancer" option on being crazy good at hacking.  Still, there are ways around that too.  First off, data bomb.  Stealth it too.  That'll slow him down.  Second off, have the pilot/agent analyze to see if the databomb is still running.  If not trigger an alert.  Make the standard alert response involve spoofing a new ID and reestablishing the connection with you.  Now the hacker gets disconnected and has to spoof himself a new ID and then reacquire your drone's ID.  And if the hacker is a techno who ended up bumbling into your databomb because he didn't invest enough in his Computer skill (more important than novices think,) then he's probably dead from 6-36 stun.

[CanRay]

Doesn't Encryption require the Electronic Warfare skill?

[LonePaladin]

Nope. The action only requires the software; no check is necessary, just set a passcode. And if you're letting an agent handle cycling encryption, it would be able to do six nodes/connections in one Combat Turn. (Agents get 3 IPs.)

The rigger in my game has a Rating 4 agent with the programs needed to find, and deal with, hackers: Analyze, Attack, Armor, Medic, Track, and a few others that I can't immediately recall. He lets it wander through his network, looking around for suspicious activity. I basically rule this as a pull-it-out-of-my-hat (heh) random chance that the agent's peeking into a particular device, if there's someone trying to get in.

I'm sure, once they see how well his system's protected, that the rest of the team will start funneling him the money needed to secure their own 'links. (It'd be even better if I had Unwired -- I want the stats on a tacnet, dammit.)

[CanRay]

Then what is EW used for?  And why does it have the Encryption Specialization?  (SR4A Page 127.).

[Kontact]

Then what is EW used for?  And why does it have the Encryption Specialization?  (SR4A Page 127.).

Scan + EW = find hidden node
Decrypt + EW = initiate cryptanalysis
Sniffer + EW = capture wireless signal
Signal + EW = jamming on the fly

That's the four EW tests.