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[6E] errata released.

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Typhus

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« Reply #15 on: <08-01-19/2253:29> »
Would you be at liberty to share what the goal of the Hotfix Team is in the errata process?  I'm just wondering what end state the Hotfixes are supposed to achieve?  Trying to set my expectations.

PiXeL01

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« Reply #16 on: <08-01-19/2333:55> »
The HotFix was assembled to go through the material and fix the biggest or glaring errors which could be discovered within the very short window of time they were given prior to GenCon. They were to catch as many errors as possible of course, but they were never meant to be the end of the errata for the product.

The Errata Team will be given access to the book after official release and then keep working through it until no more errata would be needed.
As I am not the leader of this team I cannot tell you whether there will be a periodic errata release or huge batch or even a change at a time.

The Errata process does not stop at the HotFix, it’s just the beginning.
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #17 on: <08-01-19/2338:25> »
Hopefully the errata team get to grenades at some point.

Xenon

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« Reply #18 on: <08-02-19/0431:25> »
I'd say we should promote the hot-fix errata team to proof reading books before they go to final printing ;-)

Well done guys! And really nice that the errata is out this early.


Got more bits to the SR6 puzzle now. I actually like how the whole picture is shaping up.

Finstersang

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« Reply #19 on: <08-02-19/0632:26> »
First of all: Nice to see there´s an active errata process right from the get-go. Thanks  ;D
Now if there would have been proper proofreading in the first place, that would have been even nicer. But alas...

Some observations that astonished me (not necissarily in a bad way), both about the Errata and the Core rules that can be extrapolated from them:

Cover I like the fact that cover now still gives you bonus defense dice in the errata, but the "can´t gain Edge on your attack" penalty seems like a really bad idea. It just further devaluates the Edge mechanic by putting arbitrary shakles on Edge gain (But hey, at least the Edge is not falling victim to the communist 2-Edge-per-round-limit, amirite? ::)) So yeah, you might want to have a second look on that. What astonishes me more than the new rules itself is the scope of this item: I don´t know how the original version of the cover mechanic in the Core Rules work, but this doesn´t look like the typical "First-Aid" errata, but like a full-blown rules change. 

Edge: Wow, there´s a lot of Edge uses hinted at all over the place! Not that this is a bad thing, but maybe another reason to overthink that 2-Edge-per-round limit? The Edge mechanic is supposed to be a selling point of SR6, stop neutering it by adding arbitrary restrictions to it! I´m rather having a system that´s a bit unrealistic but fun than a system that´s neither realistic nor fun. At least the errata team fixed the restriction on Edge uses per round. Good catch, I´ll gladly forgive you the typo on that ("one expenditure of Edge per round action")  8)

Beauty Corrections: The scope of the different errata items varies drastically; There are the usual suspects like missing tables, there are wording changes for better clarification, typos, and there are some items look more like actual rule changes than fixes. And then there are items that do look a bit... arbitrary? I mean stuff like
  • p. 70, New Spells, sentence 3: Change “After a week of study” to “After about a week of study, (see p. 131). So there´s a bit of leeway for the GM now, in case (s)he forgets who controls the game world? :P Is that really worth an errata item?
  • p. 90, Weapon Specialist, skills: Change Close Combat 6 to Close Combat (Unarmed Combat) 5. Assuming that buying skills at chargen works remotely similar to 5E, isn´t that just a kind of modification that any player could do themselfes?
To put some constuctivism in the criticism: You people should consider some kind of priority annotation to distinguish different types of errata items: Actual rules changes / "fixes", missing stuff, clarification, typos and lastly, beauty modifications like the above. If this document gets longer (and I´m sure it will), it becomes more and more tedious to pick out the more important changes.

Athletics: So, Archery and Throwing is part of Athletics now, making it a kind of semi-combat skill? That´s... wild. Would have never guessed that. But it actually makes sense. Hell, I like it  ;D
« Last Edit: <08-02-19/0646:58> by Finstersang »

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #20 on: <08-02-19/0655:07> »
this doesn´t look like the typical "First-Aid" errata, but like a full-blown rules change.
It is NOT. They simply changed the phrasing and added the -2 penalty for Cover IV that wasn't present in this section, but WAS referred to elsewhere in the rules. All they did here was make things more clear.

As for "a week of study" to "about a week of study": p131 describes it depends on the hits you score: Can be 12, 6, 3, 1.5, etc. So it was changed to fit the actual details, it's not a simple cosmetic fix but resolving the clash between 2 contradicting sections.

Your post doesn't match reality. I'm disappointed.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #21 on: <08-02-19/0710:39> »
I'd say we should promote the hot-fix errata team to proof reading books before they go to final printing ;-)

Well done guys! And really nice that the errata is out this early.


Got more bits to the SR6 puzzle now. I actually like how the whole picture is shaping up.

<3
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Lormyr

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« Reply #22 on: <08-02-19/0726:43> »
It is in no way the end of forthcoming errata for the 6we crb.

Thanks for the heads up there SSD. Even so, this first batch was very disappointing to me. Other than the editing corrections, I feel like the wrong items to "fix" were focused on.

So there are actually more than 9 pages of errata (including 6 omitted tables)? 

Can CGL put the errata team on the editing side instead?

So I am not a publisher, or editor, or developer, so take this impression with a grain of salt. It surely does seem like a lot to miss for print though, especially when they knew they would need errata at least three months before the books would be released.

Hopefully the errata team get to grenades at some point.

They already did bro, made considerably more deadly with that dodge table. -6 to avoid incoming (that's agility + athletics to gtfo) vs. the most damaging area of the grenade.

That deletion of that paragraph to Mystic Adept might have neutered them pretty terribly too. They were to good as was, but now they are in a very rough spot. I'll walk you guys through this since the book is out now.

Mages, Adepts, and Mystic Adepts start with the following magic rating: A = 4, B = 3, C = 2, D = 1.

Mages start with a number of spells equal to their magic rating, as determined by their priority selection above. This figure is not altered by increase by "points, karma, or adjustments". So 8 spells at most.

Adepts do the same thing with power points, so again, 4 at most. This is later contradicted under the power points section in the adept section, which says "whenever adept characters gain a point of magic they also gain a power point.". So which of those two things gets to be correct is still up in the air.

Mystic Adepts use their rating to buy both. 1 for 1 on power points, or 1 for 2 spells. So a priority B could have 2 power points and 2 spells for example. The removed sentence said they could buy power points up to their magic rating for 6 karma each during advancement. That potential made them too good imo (I would have made it 10 karma each at chargen only), but having a true split leaves them pretty well behind the curve and locked into the optimization choice of spend them all on power points because the only way you are getting more is initiating. Spells are easy at 5 karma a pop.

I'd say we should promote the hot-fix errata team to proof reading books before they go to final printing ;-)

Please. And pay them.
« Last Edit: <08-02-19/0734:28> by Lormyr »
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

PiXeL01

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« Reply #23 on: <08-02-19/0733:21> »
Many of the HotFix members should be on the Errata team.
And yes, while pay would be nice, we (the Errata team) do it for the love of the universe/game :)
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Lormyr

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« Reply #24 on: <08-02-19/0735:17> »
Many of the HotFix members should be on the Errata team.
And yes, while pay would be nice, we (the Errata team) do it for the love of the universe/game :)

I dig it, but that still doesn't mean you shouldn't receive compensation for your time and effort.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Sendaz

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« Reply #25 on: <08-02-19/0745:50> »
Not directly a errata fix, but looking at the errata they mentioned grenade launcher and within this the damage of a fragrmentation grenade being 16p/12p/8p with 16p for Ground Zero, 12p for Close and 8p for Near.
Now looking at the boxset, Close is listed  0-3m and Near is 4-50m.

Do grenades have a different sizing for their blast zone and just happens to be using the same terms as weapons range (which would be kind of confusing if they are different things) or is it really doing 8p DV out to 50m distance?
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #26 on: <08-02-19/0746:32> »
Each kind of explosive lists what its actual cap to the Near range is.
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Sendaz

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« Reply #27 on: <08-02-19/0753:13> »
Each kind of explosive lists what its actual cap to the Near range is.
Whew, thanks!
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Finstersang

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« Reply #28 on: <08-02-19/0755:55> »
this doesn´t look like the typical "First-Aid" errata, but like a full-blown rules change.
It is NOT. They simply changed the phrasing and added the -2 penalty for Cover IV that wasn't present in this section, but WAS referred to elsewhere in the rules. All they did here was make things more clear.

As for "a week of study" to "about a week of study": p131 describes it depends on the hits you score: Can be 12, 6, 3, 1.5, etc. So it was changed to fit the actual details, it's not a simple cosmetic fix but resolving the clash between 2 contradicting sections.

Your post doesn't match reality. I'm disappointed.

Thanks for the clarification, makes more sense now. It´s hard to tell how fundamental (or "cosmetic", on the other side) an errata item is without seeing the book it´s based on. That´s why all this bleating on how "10 pages of Errata means that 3% of the book are wrong" kinda pisses me off :P 

That being said: "You can´t get Edge for shooting out of cover" is definetely something that will go straight out of the window if I ever play 6th Edition. Jeez people. If you want this fancy new mechanic take off, stop gutting it  ::)
« Last Edit: <08-02-19/0758:59> by Finstersang »

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #29 on: <08-02-19/1016:46> »
So the fix for grenades was to make them even more brokenly overpowered.

Here’s how I’d fix them. 1/2 the damage at each distance. Roll scatter as normal. Also make it an opposed test remove that penalty to dodge nonsense, net hits on the attack test increase the damage. Any net hits on the defense test make you effectively one range category out from where the grenade actually landed. And if people want to blow minors still on drop prone etc let them. Dodge adds so many dice it almost negates standard attacks so the same can be true for grenades. Ta da grenades are actually useable in the game without shadowrun 6e just becoming the who throws the grenade first edition. Probably have to do the same for missiles etc.