[penllawen]

But the errata released rule does not specify the loss of edge is only for level 4 cover. So even 25% cover you don’t get an edge. That makes no damn sense.

Strongly agree. I don’t see why standing in the open gives you more of an advantage over your opponents than standing behind a knee-high barrier. Blind fire, I can see. But standing in cover should give you lowercase-e edge, not lose it.

I’m no stickler for simulationist mechanics over elegant approximations. But you still need some coherence and some verisimilitude.

[markelphoenix]

But the errata released rule does not specify the loss of edge is only for level 4 cover. So even 25% cover you don’t get an edge. That makes no damn sense.

Strongly agree. I don’t see why standing in the open gives you more of an advantage over your opponents than standing behind a knee-high barrier. Blind fire, I can see. But standing in cover should give you lowercase-e edge, not lose it.

I’m no stickler for simulationist mechanics over elegant approximations. But you still need some coherence and some verisimilitude.

Yeah, for Cover 4, I totally get it. For anything else it really seems thematically irrational.

In regards to a prior comment suggesting it's not 'cool' to fire from cover, I disagree. The idea of not being a green noob and actually using cover instead of walking out in the open with both pistols blazing seems very cool from a, "Hey, this 'Runner isn't a total drekhead, no wonder he is still alive to run the shadows". Being able to pop up quickly with a minor attack from cover action, quickly assess your targets, and then taking a shot, seems the definition of cool, vs the guy who ends up a puddle of blood on the ground for 'thematics'....which given most Shadowrunners being a 'survive to fight another day' type, save combat monsters or people with traditions/traits that prevent them from not going full berserk/stupid, makes way more sense for them to gain advantage via fighting intelligently.

[Michael Chandra]

You gain advantage by having higher DR so better odds at defensive edge and having one of the only dicepool modifiers in the system.

[KatoHearts]

If you ignore all the other dicepool modifiers, then yes.

[KatoHearts]

Double post because I figured out the Cover 4 thing, you take the -2 so they can charge you two edge to shoot without penalty. Another punishment for playing defensively I can only assume.

[Xenon]

In real life you use cover to gain a defensive advantage over your opposition and you use movement in order to flank your opposition to gain an offensive advantage.

But standing in cover should give you lowercase-e edge

Odds are already higher that you will get rewarded a tactical advantage for being in cover when people shoot at you compared to if you had been out in the open.

...but offensively? covering behind something while sticking out your weapon to shoot back is obviously not as efficient as if you get to maintain a proper firing stance or if you use movement to flank your opponent.

verisimilitude.

Whats up with this word anyway. Until 2 weeks ago or so I never seen it. Not even once in my entire life. Now it pop up in every other forum post. WTF :-)

you take the -2 so they can...

You can reduce the modifier by using a periscope.


In SR5 you had a -6 dice penalty while firing at targets if you were 100% behind cover.
In SR6 you take a -2 dice penalty if you fire while having the status effect Cover IV.

If anything I'd say you are getting less punished for using Cover in SR6 ;-)

[penllawen]

verisimilitude.

Whats up with this word anyway. Until 2 weeks ago or so I never seen it. Not even once in my entire life. Now it pop up in every other forum post. WTF :-)

Hah!

I've always loved it, both as a word (it's so fun to say) and as a concept. I've long regarded it as something of a holy grail in TTRPG games I run. Actually being realistic, with hugely complex simulatinist rules, isn't for me. But feeling real, with rules that are elegant to navigate but still capture that nebulous essence of reality? That's the magic I want to create for my players.

[KatoHearts]

In SR5 you had a -6 dice penalty while firing at targets if you were 100% behind cover.
In SR6 you take a -2 dice penalty if you fire while having the status effect Cover IV.

You're talking about the blind fire penalty which is a penalty for not looking where you shoot, nothing preventing you from leaning out of cover in 5e, rather than a penalty for being in cover.

Having the periscope exist and negate an entire edge move is predictable and smacks of internal inconsistencies, the usual trash.

Additionally, I just found this one. Mnemonic Enhancers still add their rating to your knowledge skill pools proving once again CGL has no idea what they added or took out of this dumpster fire.

[incrdbil]

...but offensively? covering behind something while sticking out your weapon to shoot back is obviously not as efficient as if you get to maintain a proper firing stance or if you use movement to flank your opponent.

That's a evaluation that doesn't remotely mesh with reality. Something to brace with, fire from is far more steady and efficient than firing on the move. Stopping to take up a perfect firing stance in the open..well, if thats the new 'rule of cool'..then apparently being dead, really quick is the new cool.

[Lormyr]

I am trying to figure out the logic behind this decision....Why would you not gain edge from making a sound tactical move, but by making a less sound tactical move, you can get edge.

So, here is a direct quote from the CRB about what edge represents in 6e:

"This critical statistic measures the undefinable, putting it on tricky ground right at the outset. It is that combination of guts, risk, and heedless ignorance of danger and good sense that lets shadowrunners survive where others do not.".

Now before I go further, let me be clear I am not a fan of the new system. That said, I think Jayde Moon hit the nail on the head. It doesn't make a damn bit of sense, but it was not meant too. It was intended to let the system work the way they wanted it to.

The attribute is very poorly defined, which allows a lot (entirely too much imo) room for discrepancy between perspective, so that it can do whatever the table in question wants it to while infuriating those of us that would just appreciate some sensible consistency.

As defined, tactical acumen has very little to do with the attribute, even while it is a core element of how you actually wield the attribute mechanically.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

This is purely opinion:

SR has always been at least wading in the "movie logic" pool. 6we happens to swim in it.

But we're still not at the deep end, as you still do things like track ammo rather than run out when you glitch, and so on.

[Xenon]

You're talking about the blind fire penalty which is a penalty for not looking where you shoot, nothing preventing you from leaning out of cover in 5e, rather than a penalty for being in cover.

If you are 100% behind cover then you are per definition not leaning out over the cover


If you are 100% behind cover in SR5 when firing you take the blind fire situational modifier of -6 dice. Unless your weapon is equipped with a camera (scopes and smartguns come with a built in camera) in which case you instead take the "attacker firing from cover using imaging device" situational modifier of -3 dice. Or you use a periscope in which case the modifier is down to -2 dice (or even -1 dice if you are wireless connected to it).

If you are 100% behind cover in SR6 (this would be the status effect Cover IV) when firing you take a negative dice pool modifier of 2 dice. Unless you are using a smartgun system (that comes with a camera) or a periscope in which case you don't take a negative dice pool modifier at all.


If you are say... only 60% behind cover in SR5 (because you are leaning out to take the shot or whatever) then you don't take a negative dice pool modifier to shoot at all. The defensive effect is that you gain a positive dice pool modifier of 4 dice to your defense test.

In SR6 this would be the status effect called Cover III in which you also don't take a negative dice pool modifier to shoot. The defensive effect is that you gain a positive dice pool modifier of 3 dice to your defense test and a +3 bonus to your DR.

[Typhus]

In SR6 this would be the status effect called Cover III in which you also don't take a negative dice pool modifier to shoot. The defensive effect is that you gain a positive dice pool modifier of 3 dice to your defense test and a +3 bonus to your DR.

Unless they use an imaging scope against you, then your DR is irrelevant.

[Xenon]

Your DR is still there to prevent the shooter to gain edge. This is not something his scope can affect at all....

That is not really an issue. The two main offenders here are that:

1. Vision magnification and imaging scope are not aligned.
2. Imaging Scope may be used at Close and Near range.

Fix that and imaging scopes will be fine.

[Lormyr]

The bottom line is that the absolute last thing the armor situation needed was to be further diminished by a resource that is trivial to acquire.