[incrdbil]

Hello all. Getting back into SR ater a prolonged absence. Most of my prior SR4 experience only used sample or pre-built characters. Finally getting to play with building my own.  Question for the GM's and players out there--how many BP's are you actually starting with?

The baseline points of 400, with the 200 attribute limit feels terribly restrictive and low, and I don't like any of the characters I've managed to cram in under those restrictions.   I've played every edition of SR, and this is the first time I've struggled so.  So what levels are you  starting at:  450,  500,  or even higher?

[nakano]

It really depends on the level of the campaign.  400 is okay, but it forces alot of streamlining in the building process.  Rounding is very difficult and often ineffective.  500 allows for much more rounding IMO. 

I have started the 4th ed games I have run at 400, but I have accelerated karma awards to allow players to advance faster, fill holes in their builds and generally round out characters.  That being said I have played with 500 pts on a few occasions and it can work. 

[thalandar]

I start at 500, too.  Works well, and it's not too powerful, you just need to adjust encounters accordingly.

[agustaaquila]

I like the 400 amount.  While you can start of 500, I like playing the early part of a career, where you struggle to survive with not having enough resources.  Then again, I like AD&D for the same reason.

I know of games where they started at 300 BP, because the gamemaster thought that 400 was too powerful.  It just reflects each person has their view of the game, and different expectations of how to reflect that world.

[larskrygan]

i give my player 450 BP on the start,  and a bit more karma at the end of my aventures.

if they have some good rp , i will give them some free contacts or they can "upgrade" the loyalty of theirs ( depending on the situation / run / help offered )

[Tagz]

I start my players at 400bp, they grow from there.  And one of them continuously breaks the setting's challenge level with his builds, outpacing characters with 100 or more karma gained.  Nothing that breaks RAW, and I could easily amp things up to match his, but the fact is he knows how to build a more efficient character then the other players or even myself (and I'm no slouch).

If you want some help optimizing a 400bp character (or any other bp amount, really) try posting your character in the Character Critique thread.  If the point is to squeeze out the power we can help you to do it.

[Charybdis]

I start my players at 400bp, they grow from there.  And one of them continuously breaks the setting's challenge level with his builds, outpacing characters with 100 or more karma gained.  Nothing that breaks RAW, and I could easily amp things up to match his, but the fact is he knows how to build a more efficient character then the other players or even myself (and I'm no slouch).

If you want some help optimizing a 400bp character (or any other bp amount, really) try posting your character in the Character Critique thread.  If the point is to squeeze out the power we can help you to do it.

I'm with Tagz. 400BP still gives you some great builds, but not so powerful that they have nothing worth Running for.

Why are you in the biz if you had 1Mill Nuyen for Ware? Sell your arm and live a high-lifestyle for a year....
Makes much more sense than going on a few runs for 4k per mission....

Note: I prefer the Karama build rules than BP, but onily because they suit high BP races a bit more.
When your current PC costs 250BP for race, you crunch the numbers to see which one is more effective

[thalandar]

I think it really depends on your style of play, I have the player use the "extra" points to round out the character, i.e. skills.  I am hard on characters, enough so that 4 have died, two have had severe wounds that took them effectively out of the game, and another who has aquired several mental illnesses during the game-not to mention the addictions.

[aimlessfreak]

In the game I just started running i stuck with the 400 BPs because i like the idea of newish runners, maybe they each have a run or two under the belts.  For this reason i also changed the starting skill max to only one at 5 and no more then two at 4.  The way i look at it  how can a bunch of more or less newbs have maxed skills, after all 5 is still right up there with elite forces.

[Charybdis]

In the game I just started running i stuck with the 400 BPs because i like the idea of newish runners, maybe they each have a run or two under the belts.  For this reason i also changed the starting skill max to only one at 5 and no more then two at 4.  The way i look at it  how can a bunch of more or less newbs have maxed skills, after all 5 is still right up there with elite forces.

Meh, I'm not with you on this.

I like the idea that a PC can be at 6 with something (or even 7 with the right point-spend), because this reflects their sum life to date.

Why can't they have been trained by special forces? (It explains all that cyberware!).
Why can't they be an absolute Infiltration expert. It explans their years scrounging in the streets hiding from cops, gangs, triads, critters etc
Why can't they have Gymnastics at 6? Never seen a movie with some good Parkour street thug joining the action?

Even book standard red Samurai have better skills than this (Firearms skill group at 5, starting characters can't get higher than 4)

It's expensive anyway for a PC to get a skill to 6. If they're willing to cop the BP to do it (and thus miss out in other areas), it seems balanced to me.

Then, after some runs, they can get more experience to bump up those other skills to the Elite level

[aimlessfreak]

In the game I just started running i stuck with the 400 BPs because i like the idea of newish runners, maybe they each have a run or two under the belts.  For this reason i also changed the starting skill max to only one at 5 and no more then two at 4.  The way i look at it  how can a bunch of more or less newbs have maxed skills, after all 5 is still right up there with elite forces.

Meh, I'm not with you on this.

I like the idea that a PC can be at 6 with something (or even 7 with the right point-spend), because this reflects their sum life to date.

Why can't they have been trained by special forces? (It explains all that cyberware!).
Why can't they be an absolute Infiltration expert. It explans their years scrounging in the streets hiding from cops, gangs, triads, critters etc
Why can't they have Gymnastics at 6? Never seen a movie with some good Parkour street thug joining the action?

Even book standard red Samurai have better skills than this (Firearms skill group at 5, starting characters can't get higher than 4)

It's expensive anyway for a PC to get a skill to 6. If they're willing to cop the BP to do it (and thus miss out in other areas), it seems balanced to me.

Then, after some runs, they can get more experience to bump up those other skills to the Elite level

Most of the time I would agree, what I should have said is that none of the players in this group have played shadowrun before so I kinda wanted to keep things low key to start.

[CanRay]

Bah!  My group will get 200 BP and face dragons as enemies, and like it!

[aimlessfreak]

Bah!  My group will get 200 BP and face dragons as enemies, and like it!

Has anyone ever called you evil? lol

[CanRay]

Bah!  My group will get 200 BP and face dragons as enemies, and like it!

Has anyone ever called you evil? lol

Never twice.

Well, OK, I allowed them to when I ran Deadlands.

But never when I run Paranoia.

[aimlessfreak]

Bah!  My group will get 200 BP and face dragons as enemies, and like it!

Has anyone ever called you evil? lol

Never twice.

Well, OK, I allowed them to when I ran Deadlands.

Shouldn't that be what they have to call you when you run Deadlands?