[markelphoenix]

If I am Astral Projecting, and I see some Metahumans, could I not cast Mana Spells at them? What is to keep a mage from frying a group of mundanes from the astral if they have Mana based attack spells?

[Michael Chandra]

They're not astrally active and you can only affect the astral plane while projecting. Dual-natured are fair game however.

(This is not explicitly stated in the astral combat section, but implied by the manifesting info just before)

A manifesting
astral projection has no physical presence,
meaning they cannot interact with the
physical world, and they are not captured on
any recording equipment. You also cannot
cast spells at targets solely on the physical
plane,

[penllawen]

If I am Astral Projecting, and I see some Metahumans, could I not cast Mana Spells at them? What is to keep a mage from frying a group of mundanes from the astral if they have Mana based attack spells?

To paraphrase the 2e rules (which I think explain this more coherently than any later editions I've read):

There are two scenarios under which someone casts a spell: they are on the physical plane, or they are on the Astral plane.

If they are on the physical, what happens is: as part of the process of casting the spell they synchronise their aura with the target's aura. The energy gathers around the caster, then travels between caster and target on the Astral plane, and then "grounds out" to the physical world through the target's aura. It is this grounding out, the transfer of shaped energy from the Astral to the physical, that causes the spell effects. When the target isn't something that is active on the astral plane, this grounding can only happen when there's physical target-physical caster symmetry because the caster needs to do this aura syncing to complete the circuit.

This is also why spells like Mana Bolt don't offer the target a defence roll (you can't dodge something that comes from inside you!) or consider things like armour (again, the spell bubbles up from inside your body -- can't armour against that!)

If the target is themselves astrally active -- a dual-natured being like a Materialised Spirit, an Astrally projecting or perceiving person, or similar -- then rules change. Now, that target is its own ground contact; it exists on both planes at once, so the caster no longer has to do the syncing aura thing. This means the caster can hide out on the Astral and lob spells from relative safety.

(This is only for Direct spells, like Mana Bolt. Indirect spells like Acid Stream are something different. There, the caster effectively casts the spell targeted at themselves ("I summon a stream of acid that will be directed over there") and the spell comes into existence right infront of them. Then, the magically created matter or energy travels from the caster to the target in the physical plane, like any other object. But this also means people who get hit by the acid get defence rolls and armour can help them.)

[Michael Chandra]

Grounding doesn't exist in 6W rules so shouldn't be used to answer a rule question.

[markelphoenix]

Thank y'all for reply. One last question, what about Indirect Combat Spells in the Astral? i.e. a Flamestrike or other Physical spell.

[markelphoenix]

Grounding doesn't exist in 6W rules so shouldn't be used to answer a rule question.

Eh, I think the point was less to provide the rule, which you covered (thanks btw :-)), but to help with the fluff of it.

[Michael Chandra]

Through Grounding it was possible to kill a mage because they had an active focus. That's not possible anymore, so the logic doesn't fully apply.

My notes say "Spellcasting works as normal but Mana spells only (p161)" for in the Astral. Second paragraph that page apparently.

[penllawen]

Eh, I think the point was less to provide the rule, which you covered (thanks btw :-)), but to help with the fluff of it.

Indeed. If there's coherent fluff anywhere that explains fully and clearly how this works within the game world in 5e, I'm yet to read it.

[penllawen]

Through Grounding it was possible to kill a mage because they had an active focus. That's not possible anymore, so the logic doesn't fully apply.

Note I was careful not to mention foci in my post. I am aware they changed along the way.

Does anything in what I wrote contravene the rules-as-written of 5e or 6e? I do not think so, but would like to know if so.

[Xenon]

what about Indirect Combat Spells in the Astral? i.e. a Flamestrike or other Physical spell.

SR6 p. 131 Spell Descriptions
Physical spells only affect the physical realm.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

If I am Astral Projecting, and I see some Metahumans, could I not cast Mana Spells at them? What is to keep a mage from frying a group of mundanes from the astral if they have Mana based attack spells?

Technically, nothing.

However everyone who's played SR in editions 1 thru 5 know it's not supposed to work that way.

I need a canned response line for "The errata team is aware of this."

[Xenon]

In earlier editions you either need to see the actual physical body of the target with your natural vision (optical reflections, optical lenses, optical binoculars, optical fibers etc as well as and augmentations you payed for with essence count as natural vision)

Or, if you switched from your physical vision to your astral vision (by using astral perception or astral vision), you need to sense a targets true tangible astral form (not their intangible astral aura) with your astral perception.

While intangible astral auras could be sensed from the astral plane, they could not be targeted.

Honestly not sure how much of this is explained or being limited in SR6.....

[Michael Chandra]

Manifesting you can't even target people on the physical plane, so I'd argue the same applies when you're fully astral. But definitely needs clarification.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Manifesting you can't even target people on the physical plane, so I'd argue the same applies when you're fully astral. But definitely needs clarification.

That's the reasonable inference yes.

But you do have those players who refuse to be reasonable.

[dezmont]

It is always useful to get it in writing, because even with good natured players fhere is an element of disappointment and beinf the bad guy to telling them that, no, they can't do this cool thing that was, to them, evocative and fun and seemingly allowed.